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  • #1,261
  • May 4, 2022 5:51pm May 4, 2022 5:51pm
Quoting ryuryu
{quote}
But it is impossible to trade crypto or even forex using tradingview... Even if their data was good

ryuryu, you are saying I guess that it is impossible, for you, I get it.



Quoting ryuryu
{quote}
Finally you got it Tradingview is advanced charting platform.
So if one day you will see that you are ready to go with it I can guide you. Stay green!

cheeers ryu, but I'll pass on your offer.

I'll pass because I have my own method of trading, but thank you.


So how does it all play out on a chart. Best to just observe maybe.


Target trading the swings.
No delta & no vol (accurate or not) is required.
No subscriptions needed.

And its fractal. I'm only displaying here the one hour chart
(George went down to 15 min charts, with the 4hr the big daddy if I remember).


.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
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  • #1,262
  • May 4, 2022 5:58pm May 4, 2022 5:58pm
Hi ryuryu,

I think you finally you get it. Also.

This has hopefully been a breakthrough we have all made.


You see, what you didn’t quite grasp, earlier, and after so many posts is that

You, me, Kev, Andy and so many others, BWilliam included, ALL see the market in pretty much the SAME way


The only thing really is that you SAY you cannot see &/or trade the market without delta-volume data.

That’s all. That is the only difference.

But you deny that ANY other trader can trade without using delt-vol data.
And you often call what other traders do as ………. “bullsh@t” lol
Without even realising you are very wrong.


When you mentioned in another post somewhere something like that the market, when it is devoid of (substantial) market orders must go looking for limit orders (real or spoof or even icebergs), then HOW do we imagine the mechanism of the market allows it to go look for orders.

Because in the end I believe we all agree about it, the only difference being how we each see it & go about trading it.

For example, Andy put up a wonderful series of charts a week back showing how multiple pairs all ran from target to target, often 150 to 300 pips.

Andy can see that.
I cannot,
as I work in a tighter range from 1hr chart (daily for direction or range) down to the one minute.
But I do not run around threads calling what Andy sees as b/s. That is only your style ryu.

We (you) have never really tried to explain why you think your vol-delta data
cannot predict further out in the market than just a few candles.
Why I wonder can’t vol-delta data (even the 100% accurate stuff) see that ?


Myself I don’t bother at all with any Delta-Volume Data in Forex, and as Kev mentioned in his post to you, my reason is because
it is not necessary.

But if it's the only thing that gives you edge in the markets then honestly good fortunes to you sir. Why not.


Maybe we best all go back to our own trading, allowing other traders to do the same with their own methods.
  • #1,263
  • May 4, 2022 6:29pm May 4, 2022 6:29pm
Quoting TimeTells
Hi ryuryu, I think you finally you get it. Also. This has hopefully been a breakthrough we have all made. You see, what you didn’t quite grasp, earlier, and after so many posts is that You, me, Kev, Andy and so many others, BWilliam included, ALL see the market in pretty much the SAME way The only thing really is that you SAY you cannot see &/or trade the market without delta-volume data. That’s all. That is the only difference. But you deny that ANY other trader can trade without using delt-vol data. And you often call what other traders do as...
Far to diplomatic Pete. Good post though’
  • #1,264
  • Edited 11:23pm May 4, 2022 11:11pm | Edited 11:23pm
Quoting TimeTells
{quote} ryuryu, you are saying I guess that it is impossible, for you, I get it. {quote} cheeers ryu, but I'll pass on your offer. I'll pass because I have my own method of trading, but thank you. So how does it all play out on a chart. Best to just observe maybe. Target trading the swings. No delta & no vol (accurate or not) is required. No subscriptions needed. And its fractal. I'm only displaying here the one hour chart (George went down to 15 min charts, with the 4hr the big daddy if I remember). . {image}
Not for me, it is impossible due to platform design. You can open CME futures data chart, but you can't trade on CME from it. If you open your broker chart (for example pepperstone is listed there) - then you will have pepperstone tick data, instead of "real" CME data. For crypto it is not possible at all, because binance and bybit are not listed there as partners. All you can is to see their charts. But not trade.

Quoting TimeTells
market orders must go looking for limit orders (real or spoof or even icebergs), then HOW do we imagine the mechanism of the market allows it to go look for orders. Because in the end I believe we all agree about it, the only difference being how we each see it & go about trading it.
This is how how market works. Stops are market orders. Always. Limit are limit. Market seek for limit to fill. That is basics. It works always this way.
There is no need to "believe". It just 100% rules. But. Since market is money, and big money, there are cheaters around. They have created "forex brokers", and they do not follow the rules. They don't care how many market orders was executed. And how many limit are in the orderbook. And they don't care even if they will never match each other. They are using casino math. They will always win, because they have positive expectation, but trader has negative due to spead, fees, swaps, slippage, fat finger, connection problems, greed, fear and so on.
But, the good is that they have to draw candles. And they must be equal everywhere. So, the idea is to find the source. Where they are taking the data for their fake activity. The source is CME. It is 100% clear, because few milliseconds later all the movements repeat on "forex" market.

Quoting TimeTells
We (you) have never really tried to explain why you think your vol-delta data
cannot predict further out in the market than just a few candles.
I din't get what is the purpose of "predictions"? If you know how market works (the mechanics) you can exploit it. No predictions. No secret knowledge "where the market will go". I don't know where it will go. And I don't care.

Quoting TimeTells
Myself I don’t bother at all with any Delta-Volume Data in Forex, and as Kev mentioned in his post to you, my reason is because it is not necessary. But if it's the only thing that gives you edge in the markets then honestly good fortunes to you sir. Why not. Maybe we best all go back to our own trading, allowing other traders to do the same with their own methods.
But I never said it is necessary or must have.
99% here don't know how margin calculated. What leverage is. What is the difference between market and limit orders. And so on.

I said that I don't believe that you (not you personally) can beat smartest people, fastest algos and huge money using drawing tools and zero knowledge how market works and even basic math. Why in real life you can't beat prof boxer, or can't win the bicycle race if you have zero knowledge and never practice, but on forex every fancy line drawer is extremely profitable? Don't you see some issue here?
Observer effect
  • #1,265
  • May 5, 2022 12:05am May 5, 2022 12:05am
Quoting ryuryu
{quote}
I din't get what is the purpose of "predictions"? If you know how market works (the mechanics) you can exploit it. No predictions.

Thank you for good conversation.

Yes, the word prediction has many meanings, sorry.
Same as you, if we know how the market mechanics operate, then we "predict" that it will repeat the process again.

Targets are different to predictions. They exist, the market knows they are there, and the market utilises them and finds them (different timeframes also).

It takes years to get a handle on the tricks of the market.
And I don’t know them each & every single time, as I to see the market being run as a pea & shell game.
I must wait with patience for my opportunity, many traders don’t wish to.

And Andy/Moody, who IS a good guy ryu, has even more patience than me lol (well, with the markets, that is ).


Plus I only have certain set times during each day when I can challenge the big players, and attempt for profit.
Other times they can do what they want with the market, I don’t really care.

What I do know is they “run” targets (MM/LP/Big Players/algo etc).
No question. Just happens, over & over, day after day, not exactly the same way each time, like clockwork, but (imho) they “have” to do it.

Now I don’t know about every fancy line drawer. But when I observe the chart positions where they run at targets (fractally), I trade them. That’s it.

All the best
  • #1,266
  • Edited 12:52am May 5, 2022 12:17am | Edited 12:52am
Oh poor ryuryu,

I think he/she/it was criticizing me a day or so back because I made a mistake reading data from a compound calculator... and all I was doing was proving in public that I am a normal fallible feeble old man.

However said critic took it upon himself/herself/itself to put me down and insinuate that I am a fool... regardless whether I one.

In my experience anyone who goes around criticizing others is actually criticizing themselves, because they can so readily recognise their own weaknesses and mistakes in the actions of others.
In the days of old when sailors were bold, and seldom if ever contented.
  • #1,267
  • May 5, 2022 5:07am May 5, 2022 5:07am
Quoting TimeTells
{quote}
... they “run” targets (MM/LP/Big Players/algo etc).
No question. Just happens, over & over, day after day, not exactly the same way each time, like clockwork, but (imho) they “have” to do it.


This Market Action may well NOT HAVE happened, of course, who ever knows for sure, not me ? But it did thankfully.

Make any trade play at "points" where you might believe the market has committed themselves, to driving at a Target.


It doesn't always happen so perfectly folks, pls understand. Our best tool really is our trade/money management (ok queen, yes fair enough Ihlas )

But tonight, between London & NY, here it is. Done for the night, just an observer now.

After this, they can do what they want with the market, I don't really care.

.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
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  • #1,268
  • May 6, 2022 8:41am May 6, 2022 8:41am
Quoting Viktory
{quote} Congratulations on your triumph! Just be careful not to get overconfident, as we all know that 2 days is too short of a "sample". Maybe you could brag after at least around ~6 months of consistent success
Maybe you preferred shit %
+ 2% ass-mouth-virgina-holescoin
+ 3.5% asscoin
+ 7% cockcoin
+12% shitcoin
which is not bragging at all.


I had invited rookie- small kid Ryan to join me in my last evaluation challenge but he somehow knew everything is shit and scam except herself.

Attached Image (click to enlarge)
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  • #1,269
  • May 6, 2022 9:44am May 6, 2022 9:44am
Quoting mixedbags
{quote} Maybe you preferred shit % + 2% ass-mouth-virgina-holescoin + 3.5% asscoin + 7% cockcoin +12% shitcoin which is not bragging at all. I had invited rookie- small kid Ryan to join me in my last evaluation challenge but he somehow knew everything is shit and scam except herself. {image}
Hi, what prop firm is that?
Consistency will bring everything...Be good.
100% Is The Target v.1 All Time Return: -95.4%
  • #1,270
  • May 6, 2022 9:51am May 6, 2022 9:51am
Quoting mixedbags
I had invited rookie- small kid Ryan to join me in my last evaluation challenge but he somehow knew everything is shit and scam except herself. {image}
I'm trading crypto and it is very easy to create read-only API keys. Then you can see all the trades, PnL and so on.
But. Tell me please one reason to do it? What for? To show you? To prove you? But sorry, please remember me who you are?

Next. You are "trading" with prop firm. Ok. So you want me to change all my stuff from python to mt4? And to jump from crazy volatile and real vol data to that demo shit? Give me one reason to do it.

I can do it, if you give me... let's think... 100k$. Then I can. I'll outperform you 100%, this is not a problem. So please stop posting that nonsense like "see, I told him, but..."

For example you want to say all that you better than me. Ok. You better than me.
Or you want to say that your trading strategy is better than mine. Ok. You strategy is the best. But remember that I even don't know how you trade, because I'm not interested in another one never-ever-seen-holy-grail-strategy.

Are you happy now?
Observer effect
  • #1,271
  • May 7, 2022 1:20pm May 7, 2022 1:20pm
As a price action trader, I keep things simple, quick analysis and execution.
Love to talk on Discord: DividendGamer#1324
  • #1,272
  • May 7, 2022 6:04pm May 7, 2022 6:04pm
The thread is quiet these day's, maybe not such a bad thing.

Human emotions, actions, reactions ..... always has been an interest of mine.
What do they say, keep your friends close and your enemies closer, superbly demonstrated over the last few days, and the sport of 'to spike someone's guns', (have always been fond of that one)!


Enough rambling, hope all have a great week trading.

Andy
  • #1,273
  • May 9, 2022 12:27am May 9, 2022 12:27am
Quoting RickM
{quote} Now I know I'm not supposed to post on your thread but please let me explain more about trading Crypto accounts. Let I will be gone and riding of into the sunset. Your mad if you allow your account to increase far more than $10K in any month, these aren't safe places to leave your hard earn funds sitting there for too long. Also you may have to change your Crypto broker regularly as they offer rebates for periods then remove them. Then you have to find other Crypto company who are offering similar rebates. Why do they offer rebates? Same...
Hi Rick,

Just trying to understand... Why did you jump to those conclusions?

AfaIk, since years ago there are many traders/investors moving millions of dollars within-across the biggest crypto brokers/exchanges, without security issues. 10K is peanuts for them, so you could easily increase that figure to 100K or even 1M. People get hacked, but as it happens anywhere, they are often guilty of falling into fishing attacks. And besides some other online more secure wallets, if we go to the extremes, then having a "hard-wallet" is a better solution, where the user can be constantly transferring funds from anywhere.

This type of "rebates" can be very helpful to reduce trading costs, but aren't "game changing". And there's no more than a handful of good exchanges with sufficient liquidity to provide proper usable volumes (if you only want/need the best of the best). What can you tell me about this?

Hence, there's really no need to "keep switching brokers", nor enough options to do it...

-- And of course some *lucky* people have and can get rich trading cryptos

Cheers!

Quoting TimeTells
If a Broker is paying a trader to trade (ie rebate) it will likely be for the benefit of the broker organisation, and not the trader. Surely we see this. No broker spends millions of dollars on infrastructure & hardware and staffing for the sole benefit of the folks at the table. It’s a bit like a casino providing free drinks & other inducements for someone to gamble at their tables. So maybe none of us should be seen to be encouraging new traders, to come on over to a table that, ‘we ourselves sit at’. Which will then create more liquidity for...
Hey Pete,

Your point makes sense and I understand it, but we are not talking about the same kind of "rebates" normally offered by bucket-shop Forex/CFD or Binary Options brokers (the two being synthetic derivatives). In crypto they benefit BOTH the organization (more/bigger clients) and the trader (lower fees, without worsening executions); tiny but significant when they add up, specially for market makers and high-frequency scalpers.

Also, they make perfect sense in this case, because they are exclusively for "makers"/providers of REAL derivatives liquidity. Compared to centralized exchanges of traditional markets, crypto brokers can do it more easily because of having more control over their whole infrastructure, with lesser regulations (so far) and more efficient cost structures. There's nothing fishy to hide; all the details are public.

Nevertheless, they have only been available for limited periods of time; but it's still cheaper to trade with limited orders, anyway.

Btw, my respects to you...
  • #1,274
  • Edited 1:35am May 9, 2022 1:17am | Edited 1:35am
Quoting bluesteele
{quote} Your completely missing the point of what Moodybot is pointing out.. Your too wrapped up in trying to prove the importance of volume...He not referring to conspiracy theories... Volume has its place for many traders but it is far from being necessary in any market. I used to trade Nas stocks back in late 90s and started using DOM LvII in 2000 or so. and before that i was quite keen on the futures markets basing all trades off Volume and Open Int. ( but found it was not necessary for me) This kid acts like he knows all and his shit doesn't...
Hello Kevin (I read your name on other posts; is it ok, or do you prefer "Blue"?),

Maybe too late to respond to this, but here I am... And well, I don't think I "missed the point"... Albeit you maybe did, part of it?

The volume data confusion has already been clarified and explained in detail, before and after my posts of that day...

And again: If Ryu's method isn't using SL and it "averages down" (or something similar), then near to 100% win-rate is possible in some bursts for short periods of time, when the market conditions are fitting and the execution is quick & tight enough. Of course it won't be sustainable forever; that's why he's constantly changing pairs. Somehow it has been working alright in this period of time; but who knows until when, so now he's simply exploiting the opportunity.

As well as you wrote: "No one is saying that Volume is useless", NO ONE SAID IT IS NECESSARY. It's just that if it exists and some traders can properly use it to obtain a fair, clear, repeatable edge, consequently the benefit far outweighs the small cost; whereas in Forex, the "counter-cost is that there are NO REAL LIMIT ORDERS to be used in our favor (to enter and exit), higher spreads (unimportant for swing traders but significant for scalpers), and less real-time data (of what is moving the market and how) which *CAN* help make better well-informed decisions, ergo more precise. Orders+trades make the price, PERIOD.

"Trading is a High performance business. We can only control our Execution, our Entry and Exit; our Risk and our Emotions": I agree. "Outcome is for the market to decide": I think it's a combination. "Aiming for 100% WR is a fools game that will crash and Burn always": One thing is aiming for it and another being able to reach it and maintain it. "The edge is psychological not mathematical": Both.

* Damn! Funnily enough, you were right with "that 747 rumbling over your head", because unfortunately, now there are lots of planes flying over where I live, after the newer established air routes

Sincerely,
Vik
  • #1,275
  • May 9, 2022 2:08am May 9, 2022 2:08am
Quoting TimeTells
Hi ryuryu, I think you finally you get it. Also. This has hopefully been a breakthrough we have all made. You see, what you didn’t quite grasp, earlier, and after so many posts is that You, me, Kev, Andy and so many others, BWilliam included, ALL see the market in pretty much the SAME way The only thing really is that you SAY you cannot see &/or trade the market without delta-volume data. That’s all. That is the only difference. But you deny that ANY other trader can trade without using delt-vol data. And you often call what other traders do as...
"For example, Andy put up a wonderful series of charts a week back showing how multiple pairs all ran from target to target, often 150 to 300 pips."

Well, that's an easy one: It happens (it has to), simply because of how cross currency pairs are calculated/triangulated directly from majors; so all of their movements, rates and "proportional distances", are perfectly correlated and synchronized. It's in their nature

We (you) have never really tried to explain why you think your vol-delta data cannot predict further out in the market than just a few candles. Why I wonder can’t vol-delta data (even the 100% accurate stuff) see that?

Predictions, even if right more often than not (like for example in your case), are merely "educated guesses". Along with price, volume data is continuously moving-flowing-changing (or more correctly I should say: "price along with volume"), so it isn't normally "predictive" for more than a few seconds, or sometimes maybe a couple of minutes at max. While scalping M1 or sub-M1 (in some instances without looking at charts, directly from advanced DOMs; not even available in cryptos but only with traditional Futures and Options from regulated centralized exchanges), people (or algos) trade IN THE NOW.

Just another kind of "speculation". Different measurements, different horizons; different styles, different strategies...
  • #1,276
  • May 9, 2022 2:29am May 9, 2022 2:29am
Quoting mixedbags
{quote} Maybe you preferred shit % + 2% ass-mouth-virgina-holescoin + 3.5% asscoin + 7% cockcoin +12% shitcoin which is not bragging at all. I had invited rookie- small kid Ryan to join me in my last evaluation challenge but he somehow knew everything is shit and scam except herself. {image}
In fact, no one is really "proving" anything; or at best, it is only temporary. Heheh.

At the end, the two of you trade very distinct markets (apparently similar by charts) and time-frames, with methods that seem almost as being divergent...

Obviously, in the same way that Ryu isn't going to compete against you in your "zone", you won't do it in his either; seeing it like an unnecessary waste of time.
  • #1,277
  • May 9, 2022 2:38am May 9, 2022 2:38am
Quoting Viktory
{quote}

Well, that's an easy one: It happens (it has to), simply because of how cross currency pairs are calculated/triangulated directly from majors; so all of their movements,
I'll let Andy run with that one.

Quoting Viktory
{quote}
Just another kind of "speculation". Different measurements, different horizons; different styles, different strategies...
Yes, that's exactly how I see vol-delta trading, just another method. And not necessary as I see it for currency Target Traders.


Cheers Vik, all the best to you sir & good wishes.
  • #1,278
  • May 9, 2022 2:55am May 9, 2022 2:55am
Quoting TimeTells
{quote} I'll let Andy run with that one. {quote} Yes, that's exactly how I see vol-delta trading, just another method. And not necessary as I see it for currency Target Traders.
Okay. You guys say volume is not necessary data in trading. Let it be.
Then magic is necessary for Target Traders! Because on your screenshots you mark decisions with data from unknown. From the future that was not available at the moment of "decision".

Let me show what I mean.

Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: screenshot.png Size: 84 KB

and here

Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: screenshot.png Size: 83 KB

Seems "Target Trader" here is average crystal ball trader? It is very easy to take a chart and draw many lines and rectangles on it. But when you draw it YOU ARE USING THE DATA that WAS NOT AVAILABLE at the moment!!!

Last but not least thing. Market can reverse because of your 0.01 lot size trade. It is useless to check historical charts and say "here was the entry". There were NO entry. if it was the chart was DIFFERENT.

I don't know why medieval worldviews work so well in the high tech market. Probably because of greed. But if you dig a little deeper, your ideas from trading do not stand up to criticism. And when you call it "trading method" it makes me laugh. Method? Serious? You can call it bullshit. Or fake. Drawing lines on historical charts with measurement using unknown data is cheating, it is not a method.

Yes, may be volume data is not necessary at all. Even don't like to discuss it. But drawing lines that way is 100% useless for sure.
Observer effect
  • #1,279
  • May 9, 2022 3:11am May 9, 2022 3:11am
Quoting ryuryu
{quote} Okay. You guys say volume is not necessary data in trading. Let it be.
Then magic is necessary for Target Traders!

Quoting ryuryu
{quote}
Yes, may be volume data is not necessary at all.
Even don't like to discuss it.
But drawing lines that way is 100% useless for sure.

Hi ryu,

Hahaa, I have explained to you before the three types of magic. See if you can find that post, then re-read it.

Now I have not knocked volume trading at all.

I actually think that what RickM showed us all (including yourself) with vols originally, months ago, was excellent and I said so to him in my posts.


But for your benefit here, ryu, as you seem approaching pain again , ...

As a target Target trader I find vol-delta info unimportant, as
it cannot (let's not use the word predict again, as that misses the point), but
it cannot explain why price will then run TO a target maybe 40 pips away.

So as a Target trader it provides ZERO benefit, to me, that is all.


Your "points of note" on my charts you recreated to upload AGAIN, show me you still understand nothing of the process of Target OR Swing trading.
And that is okay.
You may have tried that method of trading earlier in your caareer and it did not work for you. That can happen.

But lol,
You somehow seem to think it involves magic

Now I do find that funny, but I am honestly not at laughing at you,
only the way you use the words, and seem to state with some conviction, that if you cannot employ your "data" on something - then it cannot exist .

all the best with your trading ryu
  • #1,280
  • May 9, 2022 3:22am May 9, 2022 3:22am
Quoting TimeTells
{quote} {quote} Hi ryu, Hahaa, I have explained to you before the three types of magic.
Please show me where were you entry on this chart:

Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: screenshot.png Size: 44 KB

Please point the arrow.

I don't want to discuss if volume is necessary or not. You say not, okay then not. I want to show that your "approach" and "method" is purest finest deluxe bullshit. It is not a method. There are no rules. You draw your lines using data that was not available at the moment. It is 100% useless, there is no sense at all, there is no math. And it has no positive expectation so it is impossible to use it to get profits.
Observer effect
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bluesteele
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