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  • #7,721
  • Apr 29, 2022 1:43am Apr 29, 2022 1:43am
Certainly the Ukraine crisis has set them back and it seems Mike is holding it all together. I'm hoping it is a genuine talent pool rather than just another broker with a spin...

Think I'll wait until the bugs are ironed out.

Good luck with it!
  • #7,722
  • Edited 4:20am Apr 29, 2022 3:20am | Edited 4:20am
These are the spreads from the new own server of TFF for your information. On my live account they said they will change the server from IC Markets to their own after the profit split, so it will soon affect all customers from TFF.

They also said:
'On Forex pairs the commission is $1.75 per lot per side, which equals $3.5 per lot round-turn.
On our server real market conditions are simulated, where the quotes are received from a deep pool of liquidity. Slippage can occur during news or when liquidity is low, however on our server we try to keep slippage as low as reasonably possible.'

So with the lower commissions per rtl on the new server the trading conditions on those spreads look basically the same as before with IC Markets. It is very good.

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  • #7,723
  • Apr 29, 2022 4:18am Apr 29, 2022 4:18am
Quoting nullx8
{quote} das ist die beauty in Prop, du tradest nicht dein eigenes geld, hast somit keinen kapitalzuwachs, du bist ein dienstleister und du wirst bezahlt fuer das druecken von knoepfen, desshalb schickst du denen ja eine rechnung, und kein log bezueglich der trades involviert, diese trades sind nicht dein profit, das ist nur deine arbeit. (quick English version for the rest) you not having capital gain, you just being paid for pressing buttons, the bill you send to the firm will/should reflect that. so there is no capiatal gain, as a result there...
If I'm not wrong, you are Mario Hennenberger , the boss of Enfoid from Singapore - https://www.enfoid.com/prop?jur=us
How's your Prop Firm?

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  • #7,724
  • Apr 29, 2022 4:49am Apr 29, 2022 4:49am
Quoting TrAndy1
These are the spreads from the new own server of TFF for your information. On my live account they said they will change the server from IC Markets to their own after the profit split, so it will soon affect all customers from TFF. They also said: 'On Forex pairs the commission is $1.75 per lot per side, which equals $3.5 per lot round-turn. On our server real market conditions are simulated, where the quotes are received from a deep pool of liquidity. Slippage can occur during news or when liquidity is low, however on our server we try to keep...
Commissions 1.75 x 2 = 3.5 per round turn is half of what they have now (7 USD per round turn). Let's hope we don't see too much slippage because on ICMarket I haven't experienced any.
Thanks for the spreads screenshot !
  • #7,725
  • Apr 29, 2022 8:50am Apr 29, 2022 8:50am
Some update regarding The Trading Capital. You can see past posts here:
One
Two
Three
(if you don't want to read, basically their customer service only replies to emails after a week or more, the chat is useless because there's never anyone there and they don't have dashboard)

Now the update as of today.
I passed phase 2 three weeks ago and sent them an email. As before, I didn't receive any reply to that email (and another 2 emails, or at least I thought)

At the same time I went to Trust Pilot and until the beginning of this week there were a pile of reviews describing the same same experience than mine: total absence of response.
Then, suddenly, from Tuesday there's a flood of 5 stars reviewers (with only 1 review in history) saying how good they were. That was quite suspicious, like if a ton of customers all wake up in the morning and decided to say in 1 or 2 days how spectacular they are...
I was convinced that they were, no doubt, a scam and would soon open a dispute.

However, among all that crap there was one response from them saying that "As of recently, most of our emails from our support email ([email protected]) have been getting blocked or put into spam.".

I must say that facing the past horrible response timing I never thought in search there. But in the spam folder there was a reply from them to my 3rd email (not to the 1st and 2nd, anyway, so this doesn't make them much better anyway).

So, in resume, I sent them my ID and I'm waiting for funded credentials, who knows when (and if) they will ever arrive.

I don't have any good vibes regarding them but so far this is the actual situation. Let's see how unfolds.
Of course, until more developments I don't recommend them at all.
  • #7,726
  • Apr 29, 2022 1:07pm Apr 29, 2022 1:07pm
Quoting doji
I have a confession to make, people. Took a stab at FundedNext's 15k Eval (using RubelByrne's aff link) despite my misgivings about their broker, 8Cap. Well, I passed Phase 1 today after 14 days. Will update when I finish Phase 2 and get the real live account (not simulated, take note!) to trade. Btw, do those of you using 8Cap experience intermittent freezing of your MT4 platform?
I don't see any time limit on their web site other than the 10 trading days minimum. Do they really not have a time limit for evaluation accounts?
  • #7,727
  • Apr 29, 2022 1:56pm Apr 29, 2022 1:56pm
TFT (The Funded Trader) is strongly upcoming and growing. In April over $3.4 million in payouts with average of $7.7k and $54.6k highest payout. About 1740 funded accounts. I find them very interesting as prop firm. New broker with 8cap (spreads are ok now and $5/rtl) and new staff hired too. They are really after their growth.
  • #7,728
  • Apr 29, 2022 8:43pm Apr 29, 2022 8:43pm
So i do have an issue with FTMO

if you have an account you're trying to grow, say, the 100k aggressive account in this example. you're only allowed to lose 10k max

so how will that work if you grow the account to 160k? you don't get to lose 10% of the account. its always 10k. how are you supposed to up your lot size like that? you cant. if you do your loses will also get bigger with the bigger lot sizes.

i might go with the 5Rs because of that.

drawback of going with the 5rs? less of a pay split less instruments and lower leverage overall but at least the max equity loss increases with account size proportionately
  • #7,729
  • Apr 29, 2022 10:24pm Apr 29, 2022 10:24pm
Quoting hazelj80
So i do have an issue with FTMO if you have an account you're trying to grow, say, the 100k aggressive account in this example. you're only allowed to lose 10k max so how will that work if you grow the account to 160k? you don't get to lose 10% of the account. its always 10k. how are you supposed to up your lot size like that? you cant. if you do your loses will also get bigger with the bigger lot sizes. i might go with the 5Rs because of that. drawback of going with the 5rs? less of a pay split less instruments and lower leverage overall but at...
The Prop Firm's usually have a few elements that may not be to the liking of the trader and some DD methods used can restrict the compounding effect of the trading account.

Absolute drawdown (a fixed amount that a trader can lose from initial account balance such that higher profit levels do not impact the loss limit, which is great for the trader offering up more flexibility to compound the account by increasing lot sizes);

Relative drawdown (as equity/balance increases the same DD limit applies to the larger balance which restricts the compounding and increased lot size progression by the trader and it forces the trader to always trade within the same loss margins even if a large profit has been achieved).

Be very careful as some Prop Firms apply a different DD method based on the Daily Loss limit and Max Loss Limit !

Any DD that trails is not in the best interests of the trader, not necessarily a very bad thing but it certainly restricts the flexibility quite a lot but for the Prop Firm it's great because it allows them to apply a continual tight risk approach and limit major equity swings in the trading account.

All the more reason to conduct your due diligence on any Prop Firm's finer details.

FTMO and MFF do apply different DD models and the DD applied can be different based on the program chosen !

Always check the sites FAQs and always run some of your own DD examples to gain a clear understanding of exactly how a particular Prop Firm's DD model might evolve over time.

Masterrmind ...............
Master your Mind then Master your Trades
  • #7,730
  • Apr 30, 2022 4:32am Apr 30, 2022 4:32am
Quoting mayr
{quote} I don't see any time limit on their web site other than the 10 trading days minimum. Do they really not have a time limit for evaluation accounts?
I'm on FundedNext's two-phase "Evaluation" program which is similar to FTMO's (30 days for Phase 1/60 days for Phase 2).

My main concern is their use of 8Cap as partner-broker. Now that I'm on Phase 2, I've been regularly experiencing freezing/disconnection/messed-up charts on my MT4 platform. It's almost like they don't want me to pass!

If this keeps up, I'll most likely just wait for my first payout/refund and stop trading with them altogether.
Amor Fati--F. Nietzsche
  • #7,731
  • Apr 30, 2022 6:41am Apr 30, 2022 6:41am
Quoting doji
{quote} I'm on FundedNext's two-phase "Evaluation" program which is similar to FTMO's (30 days for Phase 1/60 days for Phase 2). My main concern is their use of 8Cap as partner-broker. Now that I'm on Phase 2, I've been regularly experiencing freezing/disconnection/messed-up charts on my MT4 platform. It's almost like they don't want me to pass! If this keeps up, I'll most likely just wait for my first payout/refund and stop trading with them altogether.
That's quite disappointing because it's the one that The Funded Trader has chosen to replace Purple Trading (and Purple Trading was already a replacement of Nash).
Are you very active in number of trades ?
I'm in a TFT challenge with 8cap but didn't experience any problems so far. But I only have 2 or 3 trades a day so not enough to say anything conclusive.
  • #7,732
  • Edited 9:36am Apr 30, 2022 8:53am | Edited 9:36am
If one compares TFT with MFF, on MFF they had $6.2 mln payouts in February '22, with 2708 payouts, that makes an average payout of ca. $2300 compared to the average payout of $7700 on TFT. So the conclusion is that the higher profitable traders prefer trading on TFT. I would assume that no consistent profitable trader wants to get in touch with MFF's customer support. One could also assume the odds with the environment are better on TFT than on MFF getting a higher profit split (because for example if one gets angry or frustrated with MFF's customer support then one is not in the best mood to trade causing more mistakes because of that). The largest payout on MFF about $54k is the same than on TFT in April. If you also compare the total number of funded accounts on MFF with about 7000, that makes about $900 on payout per funded account versus $2000 on payout per funded account with TFT (1740 funded accounts with $3.4 mln payouts). The only reason I see is the cheap price on MFF, but the rules for TFT are even more relaxed (especially when you look on max daily loss rule interpretation) and the $200k is on par as cheap but with a much better customer support.
  • #7,733
  • Apr 30, 2022 10:49am Apr 30, 2022 10:49am
For your weekend amusement:
Buoytrade has a new standard program with a 3-step evaluation:
8% "evaluation", 10% "challenge", and finally a 5% "verification". Then you have to complete a 20% "junior trader" step to get to a 50% split and a fee refund. So in reality a 4-step process to make a mere 43% in profit, while having a constant 10% DD. All this for a 10k account with a 70% split.
In times when all prop firms are competing to relax the rules, Buoytrade takes the path least traveled.
  • #7,734
  • Apr 30, 2022 11:13am Apr 30, 2022 11:13am
Guys, I came across this video and found it intensely interesting. It's about the odds of casino gambling but if you equate it to forex trading which, lets face it, is a gamble too especially if you take a lot of trades in an attempt to win more then you lose. A lot of people feel that is the best way to trade especially with prop trading and that 5% max daily loss problem. But is that sound reasoning? Watch the video, essentially the first 5 minutes or so - you'll be stunned and will understand why it is that so few traders succeed.

Inserted Video
  • #7,735
  • Apr 30, 2022 11:54am Apr 30, 2022 11:54am
Quoting Mtinifx
Guys, I came across this video and found it intensely interesting. It's about the odds of casino gambling but if you equate it to forex trading which, lets face it, is a gamble too especially if you take a lot of trades in an attempt to win more then you lose. A lot of people feel that is the best way to trade especially with prop trading and that 5% max daily loss problem. But is that sound reasoning? Watch the video, essentially the first 5 minutes or so - you'll be stunned and will understand why it is that so few traders succeed. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eHgbkeaRkEQ...
While trading is considered gambling, when comparing it to casino games or sports betting, there are two big differences.........
1. you can end your bet without taking the full loss in trading. One you put your bet down on black or place your bet on your favorite football team, you either win or lose the amount of the bet, however, if I am say buying EURUSD and it starts going against me, I can exit whenever I wish
2. your edge, now you can have a statistical edge in sports betting, using trends, weather, how one batter fares against a particular pitcher in baseball, etc. You can also have an edge in poker ( I am an avid poker player), as you are playing against other humans, there is no house edge. In trading, for example, I use weekly pivots and it actually blows my mind sometimes when price will go directly to a pivot and reverse. Of course, there are times it blows right through,but that is up to the trader to know market sentiment, economic factors, etc.

So by trading high probability "zones" and practicing precise money management, trading, IMO, is not gambling in the true sense of the definition.

Games with a random outcome where the house has a built in edge.....roulette, craps, blackjack, etc.......they cannot be beat long term. Classic example, in roulette if 5 reds come up in a row, one would think there is a much higher probability of black on next spin....there is not, each spin is independent of the previous and minus the green 0's, it is still 50/50. Now, over 100 spins, yes the probability of being close to half black and half red is very high, but you are not betting on 100 spins. So in the 6 spins example the probability of RRRRRR is exactly the same as RRRRRB, as both are 1/64 at the start of the 6 spin sequence, but on the 6th spin they are both 1/2.
  • #7,736
  • Edited 12:15pm Apr 30, 2022 11:56am | Edited 12:15pm
Quoting Mtinifx
Guys, I came across this video and found it intensely interesting. It's about the odds of casino gambling but if you equate it to forex trading which, lets face it, is a gamble too especially if you take a lot of trades in an attempt to win more then you lose. A lot of people feel that is the best way to trade especially with prop trading and that 5% max daily loss problem. But is that sound reasoning? Watch the video, essentially the first 5 minutes or so - you'll be stunned and will understand why it is that so few traders succeed. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eHgbkeaRkEQ...
That is the difference to trading when doing it properly. One can have an edge, otherwise you can only minimize your losses by solid risk management. So when you have a positive expectancy more trades are usually better with higher consistency. That is why you need to focus more short term when passing phase 1 on those evaluations too. After that you can relax that higher frequency style if needed or wanted. In the real world (of trading) there are facts and fundamentals, where you can trust on, I would say. That can define some edges, if properly backtested and forward tested. And I also say that you need to understand your market(s) because math only does not help one. It can lead easily to non robust optimizations and results thereafter. Of course it is more complex to achieve an edge than this is described here.

The video also clarifies if one has no (tested) edge the best strategy is to have very few trades to pass any challenges, say one or two trades e.g., then you can still make money on those props with the additional capital, which one could not on a real broker with a live account. There is some additional room here with those props, especially when doing very very few trades to pass. So one could only be profitable with those props, when having no edge but doing very few trades. But of course it does not work in the long run when one has no edge.
  • #7,737
  • Apr 30, 2022 12:15pm Apr 30, 2022 12:15pm
Quoting TrAndy1
{quote} That is the difference to trading when doing it properly. One can have an edge, otherwise you can only minimize your losses by solid risk management. So when you have a positive expectancy more trades are usually better with higher consistency. That is why you need to focus more short term when passing phase 1 on those evaluations too. After that you can relax that higher frequency style if needed or wanted. In the real world (of trading) there are facts and fundamentals, where you can trust on, I would say. That can define some edges, if...
I believe this is the exact reason people pass and then lose the live account. Everyone kind of scratches their head on this one because the challenge is much tougher with targets and time constraints......but the bottom line is a lot of folks go "all-in" with 1 or 2 trades, get lucky, and then lose the account because, as you say, that will not work long term. Money management just drags out the inevitable if you do not have an edge.
  • #7,738
  • Edited 1:36pm Apr 30, 2022 12:57pm | Edited 1:36pm
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} I believe this is the exact reason people pass and then lose the live account. Everyone kind of scratches their head on this one because the challenge is much tougher with targets and time constraints......but the bottom line is a lot of folks go "all-in" with 1 or 2 trades, get lucky, and then lose the account because, as you say, that will not work long term. Money management just drags out the inevitable if you do not have an edge.
That is exactly the reason, I am not surprised by this new type of challenge model by the 5ers recently (looking for 100 trades with a profit factor of 2 in total). If I advised a prop firm which needed to copy profitable traders I would also look for traders doing more trades and a higher overall profit factor to copy any trades. With more trades and much more gains than losses in total the chances that the trader has an edge is much higher, so those trades must copied in a prop firm's live account. If a trader is profitable with doing lesss trades, say swing trading, then still the average net gain per trade must be higher accordingly compared to a daytrader too and of course the profit factor should also be reasonable. That is my opinion here.

As a result for example FTMO should replace the minimum number of 10 trading days by the minimum number of doing 10 trades only here, that would make much more sense to differ between lucky and successful traders especially when they are copying trades later.
  • #7,739
  • Apr 30, 2022 2:09pm Apr 30, 2022 2:09pm
For some traders, trading is probably a lot like gambling. However, if you are a trader that can consistently win 60, 70, 80 or even 90+ percent of the time, then the odds just become laughable and the idea of gambling can be tossed out the window. It's like being able to successfully count cards without any repercussions; the odds shift heavily in your favor.

Unfortunately, it takes more than a good win-rate to be a truly great trader, since you also need to be able to manage your losses well, because as we all know, it does not matter how many trades you win if you end up giving all of your profit back through your losses. This is why some traders with a very low win-rate can still be profitable, because their profits end up being larger than their losses; it is simple math.

Many traders may have a decent strategy that allows them to win a lot. But most traders fail when it comes to risk management. They either do not allow for reasonable stop-losses (or any at all) and/or they double-down (or worse) after they lose in order to recover as quickly as possible instead of just trading as they would normally trade, with patience. This pain vs. pleasure in our brains that can take over has been studied a lot and is it why psychology and discipline are so important.

In my opinion, finding a good strategy is easy. There are lots of them that are freely available on the internet that you can build on and fine-tune to suit your style of trading; you just need to invest the time. Finding the right R:R balance for your strategy and sticking to it is the challenging part.

Traders that are going all-in or risking 10% of their draw-down allowance on a single trade are only weakening their odds for long-term success. It is understandable that some will trade this way, nonetheless, especially since these prop firms have created an easy way for traders to reap huge rewards in a very short amount of time. They can essentially weigh the R:R of the challenge itself (e.g. 5 lost challenges is okay if 1 successful challenge can win big). Maybe for those types, it is like playing a lottery with realistic odds.
  • #7,740
  • Apr 30, 2022 3:01pm Apr 30, 2022 3:01pm
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} I believe this is the exact reason people pass and then lose the live account. Everyone kind of scratches their head on this one because the challenge is much tougher with targets and time constraints......but the bottom line is a lot of folks go "all-in" with 1 or 2 trades, get lucky, and then lose the account because, as you say, that will not work long term. Money management just drags out the inevitable if you do not have an edge.
Yeah no kidding. The allure of easy money is a powerful drug. Degen gamblers will seek it out. Just looking at some of the funded trading groups on FB, everyday there’s people bragging about how they finished X firm’s goals in one day.

They are convinced they have mastered the market.

Only never to be heard from again.
Trade with confidence, trade without fear.
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