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Anyone trading with a Prop firm 31 replies

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  • #7,621
  • Apr 21, 2022 4:50pm Apr 21, 2022 4:50pm
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} I find most days, the high or low on these is already in before the market actually opens. $40/point on a 100K account???? 125 points and you violate daily DD. I've seen that in under 5 minutes. You could go to $3/point on a 100K and you only need 133 points per day to hit 8% in 20 trading days. When doing the challenge, I would always plan so that I had 22 trading days within the 30 calendar days. Those extra couple of days may make a difference.

I am following us30 since this prop firm try. I
like the movements that it has. Indeed with low point value total sum can be positive overall. Although it is still arbitrary in the sense they can trade in one sentiment and tomorrow just the other way. Some days forget about the interest rates and the other day remember the rate increasings

I understood the daily draw down completely wrong. I thought that 95000 was the rule breachment level. Therefore only rule remained is to stay positive for me.


Gold can also be very good. I had the idea to sell it above 1980. I missed it it due to the holidays mainly. And then bought at 1970 which was good but due to the buy trade I forgot the sell option. Some small things makes everything complicated

If I get the chance I will try it with smaller lot sizes. I started the first days without trading. Which was mine biggest mistake, in oil was very good options as it oscillated with a amplitude of $3. With one lot 10% could be easily achieved.
  • #7,622
  • Apr 21, 2022 5:05pm Apr 21, 2022 5:05pm
Quoting garfield75
Another week to go before the Phase 1 challenge wraps up. 6% target is done so shouldn't be an issue to get approval for an extension to cover the 2% instead of retake. Just have to wait till the last day to get the extension. {image} {image} {image}
Looking at your lot size, you will get the 28 days even without being at the 6%. When they evaluate those that don't meet the "auto" criteria, if you are not reckless and manage risk well, they will give the full 28 days. I speak from experience.
  • #7,623
  • Apr 21, 2022 6:36pm Apr 21, 2022 6:36pm
Just some thoughts from me, a dude with an accredited law degree but not a licensed attorney, for U.S. traders to consider...

I recall that I started trading forex in the U.S. during the early unregulated days when a great number of brokers were merely dealing desk bucket shops. Now that the U.S. market is heavily regulated, the unscrupulous crowd seems to be testing evermore creative ways to circumvent regulation.

The U.S. forex industry is directly regulated by the CFTC and the NFA which prohibit U.S. traders from opening forex accounts with brokers not licensed in the U.S. There is no exception for referrals of retail traders to to unlicensed brokers by middlemen/women. Such go-betweens are regarded as agents of such unlicensed brokers. I understand that this is part of the typical forex prop firm's business model.

The fact that a retail trader is trading the prop firm's capital only makes things worse. In order for any person to trade the capital of another, that trader must have a Series 7 license issued by FINRA. Even if the person merely provides trading advice to others, a Series 65 license is required from FINRA and at $100 million in capital, SEC regulation kicks in. Additionally, most U.S. States have their own RIA (Registered Investment Advisor) statutes. I understand that this is also part of the typical forex prop firm's business model.

NOTE: Just to make sure I'm in the clear, I even post a disclaimer with any free signals posted for use by the general public.

And then there is the tax dilemma... We all have to report our profits to, and get to deduct our losses from, the IRS. I wouldn't want to be a trader reporting anything from the forex prop firms I've seen nor their partnered brokers to the IRS, but not reporting is tax evasion.

Finally, if anyone can point me toward a forex prop firm partnered with a U.S. licensed broker, I'll gladly check them out and maybe even give them a shot... say, IG, OANDA, ATC, or Forex.com? And if I'm misunderstanding something, please let me know and we'll discuss.

Happy trading!

DISCLAIMER: Nothing above shall be construed to constitute legal, investment, nor trading advice.
An ounce of profitable logic is worth a pound of efficient code.
  • #7,624
  • Apr 21, 2022 7:07pm Apr 21, 2022 7:07pm
Quoting RJo
Finally, if anyone can point me toward a forex prop firm partnered with a U.S. licensed broker, I'll gladly check them out and maybe even give them a shot... say, IG, OANDA, ATC, or Forex.com?
-Kick rocks.
  • #7,625
  • Apr 21, 2022 8:13pm Apr 21, 2022 8:13pm
Quoting RJo
Just some thoughts from me, a dude with an accredited law degree but not a licensed attorney, for U.S. traders to consider... I recall that I started trading forex in the U.S. during the early unregulated days when a great number of brokers were merely dealing desk bucket shops. Now that the U.S. market is heavily regulated, the unscrupulous crowd seems to be testing evermore creative ways to circumvent regulation. The U.S. forex industry is directly regulated by the CFTC and the NFA which prohibit U.S. traders from opening forex accounts with brokers...
lol, for a "dude with an accredited law degree", I would think you would be aware that it is not illegal at all for a US citizen to trade with a broker not regulated by the CFTC. The regulation has actually made these brokers worse here in the US, they are all market maker bucket shops.
I have been trading offshore for 9 years. I have used a total of 7 different brokers, 2 of which no longer accept NEW clients from the US. I had one payout issue but it was due to the payment processor abruptly stopped dealing with US clients (thanks again CFTC) and was not a broker issue.
2 reasons I use these brokers

  1. The conditions are far superior than any offered in the US. Spreads are thinner, commissions are lower. I have no random price spikes, freezing platforms, etc. I mean these things happen from time to time, however, they are legitimate issues. With CFTC “regulated” brokers they are more often than not intentional For some reason, the regulated brokers actually get away with MORE cheating. I can also trade indices and metals as for some reason these are prohibited with CFTC. The rest of the world can trade them, but not the land of the free.
  2. This is the biggie. Since the CFTC does not allow for segregation or protection of funds in any way, my funds are just as protected offshore as they are with a CFTC broker. It is zero in both cases. So why on earth would anyone put 10-15 times more money with a broker (unprotected as mentioned above) for margin than necessary. Example, I wish to trade 1 standard lot of GBPUSD, I need $3,333 to open that trade with a CFTC broker, I need $200 with my offshore broker(s). So, if I am going to use say a 30 pip stop, my broker gets $300 of my money for margin on that trade, which is my actual risk. I am not giving a broker $3,000+ to risk $300.
    So, in a nutshell, I have better trading conditions, way more assets available to trade and the biggie…80% OF MY TRADING CAPITAL SITS IN AN FDIC INSURED BANK ACCOUNT AND NOT WITH ANY BROKER. To further mitigate that risk, the 20% “in play” is split among 4 brokers. So not one broker has more than 5% of my TOTAL TRADING CAPITAL. If a broker goes belly up, disappears, etc…I still have 95%. Some traders will risk more than 5% on a single trade lol.
    I DO NOT DO THIS FOR TAX PURPOSES. I pay taxes on my trading income just as I would with a scam CFTC/NFA broker.

  • #7,626
  • Apr 22, 2022 12:41am Apr 22, 2022 12:41am
Quoting Mtinifx
{quote} Well done and good luck bro Only problem is I hope they don't tell you that the promotion is over. But you still have $750 to play with
My trading account was verified by trading support team.

Funded account credentials have now been provided.

Trading objectives and rules have been provided which I will post later, quite tight but it's their firm.

Dashboard login details have been provided.

Good to go !

ps. Up to $2 Million in funding can be provided but it might be a long haul starting at their $5K level but I will explore their scaling plan and post it here.

Masterrmind ..........
Master your Mind then Master your Trades
  • #7,627
  • Apr 22, 2022 12:57am Apr 22, 2022 12:57am
Quoting doyathink
hey, gang... who besides FTMO offers free trial accounts?
From the ones I know: The Funded Trader, The Prop Trading and True Forex
  • #7,628
  • Apr 22, 2022 2:55am Apr 22, 2022 2:55am
Quoting Capablanca
{quote} From the ones I know: The Funded Trader, The Prop Trading and True Forex

E8 also but the spreads on Indices and Gold are awful
  • #7,629
  • Apr 22, 2022 3:35am Apr 22, 2022 3:35am
Quoting Masterrmind
{quote} My trading account was verified by trading support team. Funded account credentials have now been provided. Trading objectives and rules have been provided which I will post later, quite tight but it's their firm. Dashboard login details have been provided. Good to go ! ps. Up to $2 Million in funding can be provided but it might be a long haul starting at their $5K level but I will explore their scaling plan and post it here. Masterrmind ..........
Forex Prop Firm (FPF)

Here is a copy of what was sent to me via email:

"
Below is the summary and the trading rule you need to follow

FPF Instant/Funded Account:
Min. Profit For Withdrawal: 5%
Maximum Drawdown: 5%
No max daily loss
Weekend And Overnight holdings are accepted
1.5% Risk Max. Per Asset
Leverage: 1:5

Trading Rules:

1. Drawdown : All traders must ensure that they are aware of the maximum drawdown. The maximum drawdown is 5% on the funded account. If the trader reaches the drawdown limit, they will be disqualified instantly.

2. Two opposing trades : This is often referred to as “hedging”. Traders are not allowed to have 2 or more opposing trade/position on the same pair at the same time. This mean you cannot BUY and SELL the same asset at the same time.
Same time hedging strategy is not allowed.

3. A stop loss of 1.5% per asset is requested : FPF Funding Program require you to place a stop loss and not to risk more than 1.5% per asset. Multiple positions of the same asset are considered as same trade and will be added together. The summaries of all open positions on the same symbol cannot exceed 1,5% of the account value.
The 1.5% risk is based on the starting balance

4. Martingale not allowed

5. No Buying/Selling only and abusively without strategy (example: buying 135 time in a 24 hour period with 0 sell)

6. No Abuse/Gambling (this is not a consistency rule but simply a common sense rule, we are looking for real money manager. Don't do in the challenge what you wouldn't on your real live account or a client account, we want to see you treat this account exactly like you would treat a live account with real fund and potently with up to $2,000,000 in capital.)

7. EAs are allowed; Except for High-Frequency EAs, High-Speed Scalping, Tick Scalping, Latency Arbitrage Trading, Reverse Arbitrage Trading, Hedge Arbitrage Trading, or any use of Emulators are NOT allowed.

**There are no rules or constraints on your trading style as long as you can be consistent in what you do throughout your pay cycles**
Any circumstances of violating the risk guidelines or the restriction of the program will result in an immediate termination of the account and any profits and deposits provided


"
This program will certainly not suit all traders but so far the communication has been very good.

All emails so far have been answered in under a day!

I have uploaded a TE and will get trading soon.

Scaling plan yet to be posted here.

Masterrmind .............
Master your Mind then Master your Trades
  • #7,630
  • Apr 22, 2022 4:25am Apr 22, 2022 4:25am
Quoting Masterrmind
{quote} Forex Prop Firm (FPF) Here is a copy of what was sent to me via email: " Below is the summary and the trading rule you need to follow FPF Instant/Funded Account: Min. Profit For Withdrawal: 5% Maximum Drawdown: 5% No max daily loss Weekend And Overnight holdings are accepted 1.5% Risk Max. Per Asset Leverage: 1:5  Trading Rules:  1. Drawdown : All traders must ensure that they are aware of the maximum drawdown. The maximum drawdown is 5% on the funded account. If the trader reaches the drawdown...
FPF Scaling Plan
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: Screenshot_2022-04-22-19-22-44-45_40deb401b9ffe8e1df2f1cc5ba480b12.jpg Size: 565 KB

So at a $5K start I guess I'm starting from Step 0.

Far from simple !

Masterrmind ...........
Master your Mind then Master your Trades
  • #7,631
  • Apr 22, 2022 4:31am Apr 22, 2022 4:31am
Quoting Masterrmind
{quote} Forex Prop Firm (FPF) Here is a copy of what was sent to me via email: " Below is the summary and the trading rule you need to follow FPF Instant/Funded Account: Min. Profit For Withdrawal: 5% Maximum Drawdown: 5% No max daily loss Weekend And Overnight holdings are accepted 1.5% Risk Max. Per Asset Leverage: 1:5  Trading Rules:  1. Drawdown : All traders must ensure that they are aware of the maximum drawdown. The maximum drawdown is 5% on the funded account. If the trader reaches the drawdown...

Not clear if the max loss is static. For example 5% over 100K so it will always be 95K or if this is trailing (you achieve 103K in account so it becomes 98K).

They don't specify what martingale is. 1 lot + 1.01 lot is martingale ? In Traders Central fund this would be immediately martingale.

The hedging rule I can understand but I hate it. Sometimes I misclick and instead of adding on a position I enter a symetric one by mistake. If that disqualifies immediately it's painful...
  • #7,632
  • Apr 22, 2022 4:35am Apr 22, 2022 4:35am
Quoting Capablanca
{quote} The hedging rule I can understand but I hate it. Sometimes I misclick and instead of adding on a position I enter a symetric one by mistake. If that disqualifies immediately it's painful...
I did exactly this last week.

Had to split my MFF short position into two seperate trades due to max lot size. Trade was a loss....but luckily my 2nd trade was a buy by accident so hedged myself to a breakeven trade.
  • #7,633
  • Apr 22, 2022 5:17am Apr 22, 2022 5:17am
Quoting Masterrmind
{quote} FPF Scaling Plan {image} So at a $5K start I guess I'm starting from Step 0. Far from simple ! Masterrmind ...........

That is a lot of money you have to pay for scaling.


They have also another option where you have to pay $75 for 25k account. Only drawback is your profit split is 50-50 and profit target for the first evaluation is 20%. But you can keep the profit for the first evaluation. And 50-50 remains so after the evaluations. And for scaling maybe you don’t have to put money with this option.

Only the 50-50 worries me but looks very interesting

Actually eightcap has very favourable spreads on Gold.
  • #7,634
  • Apr 22, 2022 6:13am Apr 22, 2022 6:13am
Quoting Masterrmind
{quote} For the account I was trading with E8 the spread on EURUSD was mostly around 1.1 pips but with no commission. {image} Masterrmind ...........

Are you sure that's E8 spreads because your pairs do not have the "e8" suffix?

These are the latest spreads from a few moments ago - OK no commission but the spreads are awful:
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: E8 SPREADS.jpg Size: 10 KB
  • #7,635
  • Apr 22, 2022 6:40am Apr 22, 2022 6:40am
Quoting RJo
DISCLAIMER: Nothing above shall be construed to constitute legal, investment, nor trading advice.
That is the only thing you got right about your claim. None of what you said is true. Nothing prohibits U.S. traders from using any broker they want. The regulations put in place is for Brokers who want to participate in the USA. Then they must bend the knee and abide by mountains of regulations and paperwork. That's why many had chosen not to accept US clients.

Final Ruling as submitted back in 2010: Final Rule Regarding Retail Foreign Exchange Transactions (cftc.gov)
Trade with confidence, trade without fear.
  • #7,636
  • Apr 22, 2022 7:33am Apr 22, 2022 7:33am
Quoting Capablanca
{quote} Not clear if the max loss is static. For example 5% over 100K so it will always be 95K or if this is trailing (you achieve 103K in account so it becomes 98K). They don't specify what martingale is. 1 lot + 1.01 lot is martingale ? In Traders Central fund this would be immediately martingale. The hedging rule I can understand but I hate it. Sometimes I misclick and instead of adding on a position I enter a symetric one by mistake. If that disqualifies immediately it's painful...
Drawdown is absolute not relative.

Martingale definition needs to be explained in more detail that is for sure.

Almost all accounts I trade are hedging enabled, it's a highly useful tool but I don't think it's available in this firm's program.

At least hedging was disallowed in the first 8Cap trading account when I tried it.

As for the funded account it states hedging is allowed.

I will believe it when I see it.

Masterrmind ............
Master your Mind then Master your Trades
  • #7,637
  • Apr 22, 2022 7:38am Apr 22, 2022 7:38am
Quoting Mtinifx
{quote} Are you sure that's E8 spreads because your pairs do not have the "e8" suffix? These are the latest spreads from a few moments ago - OK no commission but the spreads are awful: {image}
Quite right.

Post has been deleted, corrected and then reposted.

Masterrmind ...........
Master your Mind then Master your Trades
  • #7,638
  • Apr 22, 2022 8:06am Apr 22, 2022 8:06am
Quoting Eren10
{quote} That is a lot of money you have to pay for scaling. They have also another option where you have to pay $75 for 25k account. Only drawback is your profit split is 50-50 and profit target for the first evaluation is 20%. But you can keep the profit for the first evaluation. And 50-50 remains so after the evaluations. And for scaling maybe you don’t have to put money with this option. Only the 50-50 worries me but looks very interesting Actually eightcap has very favourable spreads on Gold.
Yes the scaling process is a bit nasty.

My profit split will be 60/40 favoring the trader.

Zero cost to me entering this program due to the 'promo' which I have mentioned previously.

Only required opening a live account with 8Cap, making at least a $500 deposit and trading a minimum of 1 lot.

No evaluation required although they did go through my trading account to verify it.

This program is instant funding not challenge.

As for the spread they are workable but certainly no where near the lowest.

Check out Interactive Brokers trading at high volume and you'll soon see what a huge difference the spread can be.

As for this program I'll simply report on each milestone achieved but I have a TE which will stay visible.

Having to use profit gained for the scaling process is a bit annoying but it is what it is.

Masterrmind .............
Master your Mind then Master your Trades
  • #7,639
  • Apr 22, 2022 8:25am Apr 22, 2022 8:25am
Quoting Cryptosurf
{quote} That is the only thing you got right about your claim. None of what you said is true. Nothing prohibits U.S. traders from using any broker they want. The regulations put in place is for Brokers who want to participate in the USA. Then they must bend the knee and abide by mountains of regulations and paperwork. That's why many had chosen not to accept US clients. Final Ruling as submitted back in 2010: Final Rule Regarding...
I believe you are referring to the Dodd-Frank Act in 2010. The official Q&A regarding that final rule posted at the CFTC site states that:

Additionally, for the first time, entities other than RFEDs and FCMs that intermediate retail forex transactions will be required
to register with the CFTC, as applicable, as introducing brokers (IBs), commodity trading advisors (CTAs), commodity pool
operators (CPOs) or associated persons (APs) of such entities. (https://www.cftc.gov/sites/default/files/idc/groups/public/@newsroom/documents/file/forexfinalrule_qa.pdf)

Again, there are no exceptions for offshore brokers nor individuals.
An ounce of profitable logic is worth a pound of efficient code.
  • #7,640
  • Apr 22, 2022 8:54am Apr 22, 2022 8:54am
Quoting RJo
{quote} I believe you are referring to the Dodd-Frank Act in 2010. The official Q&A regarding that final rule posted at the CFTC site states that: Additionally, for the first time, entities other than RFEDs and FCMs that intermediate retail forex transactions will be required to register with the CFTC, as applicable, as introducing brokers (IBs), commodity trading advisors (CTAs), commodity pool operators (CPOs) or associated persons (APs) of such entities. (https://www.cftc.gov/sites/default/f...nalrule_qa.pdf)...
Nowhere in the legislation does it say that US citizens are restricted to approved and licensed brokerages.

Nowhere.

This has been argued many times with people like yourself who are completely oblivious to FX markets and legislation.
Trade with confidence, trade without fear.
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