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  • #7,541
  • Apr 16, 2022 10:11am Apr 16, 2022 10:11am
Quoting mixedbags
I assumed you have this info from 5ers - "without netting, traders could easily pass the challenge in an hour or less".
-No. It is just common sense. Instead of traders normally taking a single position or two on a single trade, they could break it up into 10 or 20+ micro positions and pass the challenge very quickly. They could reach their 100 trade requirement in 3 or 4 trades, which would not give much data regarding how well they will perform over the long-term.

Anyway, it is not my intention to argue the benefits or downsides of this program, but only to provide information for those that might be interested.
  • #7,542
  • Apr 16, 2022 7:57pm Apr 16, 2022 7:57pm
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: DqrI2KX.png Size: 1.5 MB

Euro is low now so exchange rate in my favour.
Let's go for it with your plan.

My plan is no NETTING allow.
Simple logic, simple math.
  • #7,543
  • Apr 16, 2022 8:13pm Apr 16, 2022 8:13pm
Quoting Masterrmind
{quote} Outcome was as expected regarding slippage on trading account. MFF support did not even bother to address that Gold trade directly. Instead they only emailed me generic well known information and did not address my concern specifically. As a matter of fact if a trader got slipped there is no limit to the amount of slippage that could occur at any given time. Quite a risky situation considering that your 'safe' stop loss order level could easily be jumped creating a much large er loss than the one you expected. I was slipped negatively 50c...
I trade only GBPUSD.

I trade only after frankfurt open

I go aggressive for passing challenge.

For funded account, same strategy but lot size much lesser
Intraday only.
  • #7,544
  • Apr 16, 2022 9:13pm Apr 16, 2022 9:13pm
Quoting mixedbags
{image} Euro is low now so exchange rate in my favour. Let's go for it with your plan. My plan is no NETTING allow. Simple logic, simple math.
Any idea if traders have managed to reach the higher levels ?

Looks like a traders nightmare to me but then again I have only quickly looked over your screenshot.

It also looks like a statistician has created this model and not a trader.

Masterrmind ............
Master your Mind then Master your Trades
  • #7,545
  • Apr 16, 2022 9:58pm Apr 16, 2022 9:58pm
Quoting Masterrmind
{quote} Any idea if traders have managed to reach the higher levels ? Looks like a traders nightmare to me but then again I have only quickly looked over your screenshot. It also looks like a statistician has created this model and not a trader. Masterrmind ............
This is a new programme, so no trader makes it to that level at the moment. Next week I'll get my MFF payout and I'll dive in. Wish me luck in 5 to 6 months time then I'll report back. Or maybe I'll report every milestone from PM1 to PM16.

Yes, it is set up by a statistician, hence they have a clause that they might change the rule of the games. They might eventually said all trade must have at least 3 or 5 positions so as to force you into Netting.
  • #7,546
  • Apr 16, 2022 10:24pm Apr 16, 2022 10:24pm
Quoting mixedbags
{quote} This is a new programme, so no trader makes it to that level at the moment. Next week I'll get my MFF payout and I'll dive in. Wish me luck in 5 to 6 months time then I'll report back. Or maybe I'll report every milestone from PM1 to PM16. Yes, it is set up by a statistician, hence they have a clause that they might change the rule of the games. They might eventually said all trade must have at least 3 or 5 positions so as to force you into Netting.
Only a genius trader could make it through all levels.

I wish you all the best and look forward to your regular updates.

Have you looked at the Ditto.Trade model ?

I will expand upon the Ditto model in my next post.

Masterrmind .............
Master your Mind then Master your Trades
  • #7,547
  • Apr 16, 2022 10:48pm Apr 16, 2022 10:48pm
Quoting Masterrmind
{quote} Only a genius trader could make it through all levels. I wish you all the best and look forward to your regular updates. Have you looked at the Ditto.Trade model ? I will expand upon the Ditto model in my next post. Masterrmind .............
Correct me if I'm wrong. It seems to me that at every level you need to deposit money. Incubation is minimum 1K for level 1 and 2; and 2K for level 3 and 4. Emerging phase is min 5k for each of the 4 level.
  • #7,548
  • Apr 16, 2022 10:50pm Apr 16, 2022 10:50pm
Quoting navk
{quote} I trade only GBPUSD. I trade only after frankfurt open I go aggressive for passing challenge. For funded account, same strategy but lot size much lesser
On the challenges I tend to trade the majority of positions using EURUSD.

High liquidity, low spread and measured moves in general.

At later stages based on time remaining, equity level or DD level I tend to take entries using Gold.

Recently, both these symbols have whipped around quite a bit which is great if you get the swing right but nasty if you do not.

Most likely when I take on the next big challenge I may trade EU throughout.

Probably MFF again but I'm a little bit tempted to try another firm.

Time will tell.

Masterrmind .........
.
Master your Mind then Master your Trades
  • #7,549
  • Apr 16, 2022 11:07pm Apr 16, 2022 11:07pm
Quoting Masterrmind
{quote} On the challenges I tend to trade the majority of positions using EURUSD. High liquidity, low spread and measured moves in general. At later stages based on time remaining, equity level or DD level I tend to take entries using Gold. Recently, both these symbols have whipped around quite a bit which is great if you get the swing right but nasty if you do not. Most likely when I take on the next big challenge I may trade EU throughout. Probably MFF again but I'm a little bit tempted to try another firm. Time will tell. Masterrmind ............
On April 24, France goes to the polls to pick its next president, with incumbent Emmanuel Macron facing far-right leader Marine Le Pen in a rematch ,

was just sent a message from vantage forex , says dangerous volatility if Le Penn wins
people leave, but this thread will go on for ever
  • #7,550
  • Apr 16, 2022 11:34pm Apr 16, 2022 11:34pm
Quoting mixedbags
{quote} Correct me if I'm wrong. It seems to me that at every level you need to deposit money. Incubation is minimum 1K for level 1 and 2; and 2K for level 3 and 4. Emerging phase is min 5k for each of the 4 level.
An excellent question.

I don't know if this is additional deposits required at each level by the trader alone or if the trader can use current equity/balance levels from the prior level.

I've run a few scenarios through the 8 levels using a constant 3%, 5% and 10% gain per quarter based on no additional deposits by the trader except where Ditto Max cap funding for the level was say desired.

Trader minimums required to match Ditto Funding Cap at each level.

Phase 1:

Level 1: $2000.00
Level 2: $5000.00
Level 3: $3333.33
Level 4: $4000.00

Phase 2:

Level 1: $6000.00
Level 2: $7272.72
Level 3: $8333.33
Level 4: $10000.00

I'm not sure if previous level equity of the traders can be used to meet the minimums if the next level or if the next level requires additional deposit !!

I will ask Ditto to find out.

I ran a scenario starting at 3% even though the very last 2 levels in Phase 2 only require a gain of at least 2%.

The reason for running the scenarios was to determine potential profit gained in the traders deposits and the profit splits using Ditto Cap per level all through the 8 levels and find out how far the equity of the trader was likely to be behind the Pro Status minimum of $2 Million AUM.

There will be a significant shortfall in the AUM at the end of year 2 so the trader has 2 options.

Option 1 is to deposit the difference between $2 Million and current account balance ; or

Option 2 is to ask Ditto Trade to waive this condition based on how well you have managed money on this account from inception.

Clearly Option 2 is at the discretion of Ditto.

Ofcourse, there is an Option 3 where the trader can continue trading until the $2 Million mark is reached which could take quite a few more years based on trading performance.

A lot depends on how the trader performs from level to level and if they also make significant personal deposits into the trading account in an attempt to compound the account over the 2 years.

Trader profit and Ditto matching trader profit:

To give you an idea I have determined that by making x% per quarter for each level and summing each levels gain over the 8 levels we get the following:

3% per quarter over the 2 years will give the trader not much more than $20,000 in profit.

5% per quarter over the 2 years will give the trader not much more than $35,000 in profit.

10% per quarter over the 2 years will give the trader not much more than $70,000 in profit.

How much gain can a trader make per quarter whilst remaining within the trading rules?

<5% daily DD,
<10% monthly DD, and
>=30% overall DD will end the program.

I have a few questions still to ask regarding this program and I will update the thread as I receive more information.

I would like other traders comments if you have firstly taken a very good look at their website.

Masterrmind ...........
Master your Mind then Master your Trades
  • #7,551
  • Apr 17, 2022 12:29am Apr 17, 2022 12:29am
Quoting Aussi
{quote} On April 24, France goes to the polls to pick its next president, with incumbent Emmanuel Macron facing far-right leader Marine Le Pen in a rematch , was just sent a message from vantage forex , says dangerous volatility if Le Penn wins
Yes indeed.

The euro would bounce around abit if Macron loses the election.

Masterrmind .........
Master your Mind then Master your Trades
  • #7,552
  • Edited 12:50am Apr 17, 2022 12:37am | Edited 12:50am
Quoting Masterrmind
{quote} Yes indeed. The euro would bounce around abit if Macron loses the election. Masterrmind .........
last monday was a big gap after first round
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: EURUSDM30.png Size: 34 KB

if she wins we will see some bigger fireworks
people leave, but this thread will go on for ever
  • #7,553
  • Apr 17, 2022 12:52am Apr 17, 2022 12:52am
Quoting Aussi
{quote} last monday was a big gap after first round{image} if she wins we will see some bigger fireworks
Maybe I should grab another challenge and look to trade a major gap.

Or maybe not !

Masterrmind ...........
Master your Mind then Master your Trades
  • #7,554
  • Apr 17, 2022 1:00am Apr 17, 2022 1:00am
Quoting Masterrmind
{quote} Maybe I should grab another challenge and look to trade a major gap. Or maybe not ! Masterrmind ...........
interesting mate if a bigger gap it will be very rewarding i would think on one of my earlier post i do elude to it , in the interest of making money say gold , euro .and gbp if a big gap and it stays all day are they saying you cant trade them with the account
people leave, but this thread will go on for ever
  • #7,555
  • Apr 17, 2022 1:49am Apr 17, 2022 1:49am
Ditto Trade ::

Let's assume a 10% return per quarter (3 months).

Let's also make a trader deposit for each level that allows for maximum Ditto funding for that particular level which relates to the matching ratio at a given level.

Based on how the Ditto Model currently stands we can determine the following:

Phase 1:

L1 profit split 70/30 (trader/ditto)
Trader => $2000, profit ($200+$700=$900)
Ditto => $10000, profit ($300).

L2 profit split 50/50 (trader/ditto)
Trader => $5000, profit ($500+$2500=$3000)
Ditto => $50000, profit ($2500)

L3 profit split 35/65 (trader/ditto)
Trader => $3333.33, profit ($333.33+$3500=$3833.33)
Ditto => $100,000, profit ($6500)

L4 profit split 35/65 (trader/ditto)
Trader => $4000, profit ($400+$7000=$7400)
Ditto => $200,000, profit ($13000)


Phase 2:

L1 profit split 30/70 (trader/ditto)
Trader => $6000, profit ($600+$9000=$9600)
Ditto => $300,000, profit ($21000)

L2 profit split 30/70 (trader/ditto)
Trader => $7272.72, profit ($727.27+$12000=$12727.27)
Ditto => $400,000, profit ($28000)

L3 profit split 25/75 (trader/ditto)
Trader => $8333.33, profit ($833.33+$12500=$13333.33)
Ditto => $500,000, profit ($37500)

L4 profit split 25/75 (trader/ditto)
Trader => $10000, profit ($1000+$18750=$19750)
Ditto => $750000, profit ($56250)

Therefore, at the end of the 2 year term the trader makes a profit of $70,543.93 whilst Ditto makes a profit of $165,050.

Note also that from Phase 1 Level 3 the profit split reverses and is in favour of Ditto through all the remaining levels.

The trader is doing all of the work however, Ditto is taking in some risk in the process.

This risk can be approximated by considering the trading rules such as less than a 5% daily DD and less than a 10% monthly DD and less than a 30% overall account DD.

Ditto copies the slave account to their master account so they can control risk from their end.

Hence its critical that should the trader decide to withdraw/deposit funds from his/her account that Ditto be informed well in advance so they can adjust the amount being allocated from their end else a breach might occur due to the copying process such as causing the daily DD limit to be exceeded.

Traders comments are welcome here.

Do you think it's worth persuing or not ?

Masterrmind ...........
Master your Mind then Master your Trades
  • #7,556
  • Apr 17, 2022 2:23am Apr 17, 2022 2:23am
Quoting Masterrmind
Ditto Trade :: Let's assume a 10% return per quarter (3 months). Let's also make a trader deposit for each level that allows for maximum Ditto funding for that particular level which relates to the matching ratio at a given level. Based on how the Ditto Model currently stands we can determine the following: Phase 1: L1 profit split 70/30 (trader/ditto) Trader => $2000, profit ($200+$700=$900) Ditto => $10000, profit ($300). L2 profit split 50/50 (trader/ditto) Trader => $5000, profit ($500+$2500=$3000) Ditto => $50000, profit ($2500) L3 profit split...
not much attractive to me TBH, they should offer atleast 50% to trader,

ths model similar to pamm acc. but there trader can get more fund then dittos offer. as fund is limited here they should offer higher %. and no one knows if they copies extra fund if they found stable trading partners.
  • #7,557
  • Apr 17, 2022 3:24am Apr 17, 2022 3:24am
Quoting Masterrmind
Ditto Trade :: Let's assume a 10% return per quarter (3 months). Let's also make a trader deposit for each level that allows for maximum Ditto funding for that particular level which relates to the matching ratio at a given level. Based on how the Ditto Model currently stands we can determine the following: Phase 1: L1 profit split 70/30 (trader/ditto) Trader => $2000, profit ($200+$700=$900) Ditto => $10000, profit ($300). L2 profit split 50/50 (trader/ditto) Trader => $5000, profit ($500+$2500=$3000) Ditto => $50000, profit ($2500) L3 profit split...

that maths tell you it is not worth it. Even this mob (https://www.lepusproprietarytrading.com.au/funding-challenge) is better than Ditto.
Trading is SIMPLE not EASY.
  • #7,558
  • Apr 17, 2022 4:41am Apr 17, 2022 4:41am
Quoting inversio
{quote} not much attractive to me TBH, they should offer atleast 50% to trader, ths model similar to pamm acc. but there trader can get more fund then dittos offer. as fund is limited here they should offer higher %. and no one knows if they copies extra fund if they found stable trading partners.
Yes and they are still in the very early stages.

What concerns me is how much funding would be available to a Pro Ditto trader once they have met the 2 year minimum period and all other conditions.

I have recently asked this very question on Ditto Discord and waiting for a response.

One issue is the difference in capital between traders account and the $2Million AUM and yes I know they can review this requirement on a case by case basis but you sure wouldn't want to miss out due to their discretionary rulings.

Obviously along the 2 year journey you make some coin but certainly there are many far better profit split ratios going around so one needs to carefully consider these as well.

My thinking was to have Ditto program being traded in the background with one of my strategies that suits longer term periods.

Masterrmind ............
Master your Mind then Master your Trades
  • #7,559
  • Apr 17, 2022 5:15am Apr 17, 2022 5:15am
Quoting garfield75
{quote} that maths tell you it is not worth it. Even this mob (https://www.lepusproprietarytrading.com.au/funding-challenge) is better than Ditto.
Slightly different rules but similar concept.

However, the gains required are very different, Ditto requiring at least 3% per quarter as opposed to Lepus requiring 4-6% per month !!
Attached Image
"
Trading restrictions:

  1. Instruments = currency, indices, commodities. (No Crypto)
  2. Stop losses (per trade) must be used.
  3. Max Open Trades = 5
  4. Style Definition = no grid, no martingale.

"
"
What do we look for in a trader?

We will be watching for the following:

- Consistency

- Good risk management

- Low variance in your equity curve

- Low open trade draw down
"

Attached Image

Masterrmind ............
Master your Mind then Master your Trades
  • #7,560
  • Apr 17, 2022 5:30am Apr 17, 2022 5:30am
Quoting Masterrmind
{quote} Slightly different rules but similar concept. However, the gains required are very different, Ditto requiring at least 3% per quarter as opposed to Lepus requiring 4-6% per month !! {image}" Trading restrictions: Instruments = currency, indices, commodities. (No Crypto) Stop losses (per trade) must be used. Max Open Trades = 5 Style Definition = no grid, no martingale. " " What do we look for in a trader? We will be watching for the following: - Consistency - Good risk management - Low variance in your equity curve - Low open trade draw...
One thing I need to mention is the profit split appears to be 50:50 throughout.

Masterrmind ...........
Master your Mind then Master your Trades
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