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  • #6,401
  • Jan 23, 2022 4:55pm Jan 23, 2022 4:55pm
Quoting Capablanca
{quote} Not sure if that's mandatory by law but a lot of prop firms demand traders' approval on SIE and Series 57 exams.
Well there you go, thats pretty much what im saying. Why put themselves through all that hassle, when they can just stack 3 or 4 max prop accounts and be able to do what they want, when they want.

Unless like i say, theres maybe an angle im missing.
  • #6,402
  • Jan 23, 2022 5:06pm Jan 23, 2022 5:06pm
Quoting Paulscaff1
{quote} Well there you go, thats pretty much what im saying. Why put themselves through all that hassle, when they can just stack 3 or 4 max prop accounts and be able to do what they want, when they want. Unless like i say, theres maybe an angle im missing.
Just like the gold rush. Who made the money was the stores that sold panning supplies, the guides that helped the gold diggers tru rough trains, the camping and lodging folks and the dealers buying the gold from the desperate gold miners who had found a few dust pieces and needed to buy a can of beens to survive until tomorrow's dream. Years and years later, the truth came out and we all say what fools they were in hopes of getting rich from finding gold.

Btw, anyone watched the movie Dead Man? Great movie.
  • #6,403
  • Jan 23, 2022 5:14pm Jan 23, 2022 5:14pm
Quoting OutThere
{quote} Just like the gold rush. Who made the money was the stores that sold panning supplies, the guides that helped the gold diggers tru rough trains, the camping and lodging folks and the dealers buying the gold from the desperate gold miners who had found a few dust pieces and needed to buy a can of beens to survive until tomorrow's dream. Years and years later, the truth came out and we all say what fools they were in hopes of getting rich from finding gold. Btw, anyone watched the movie Dead Man? Great movie.
That paragraph just destryoyed my whole dream. And am tieing a noose as we speak.

joking mate.

Im an idiot though and will still keep trying

Just googled Deadman, looks good
  • #6,404
  • Jan 23, 2022 5:51pm Jan 23, 2022 5:51pm
Quoting Paulscaff1
{quote} That paragraph just destryoyed my whole dream. And am tieing a noose as we speak. joking mate. Im an idiot though and will still keep trying Just googled Deadman, looks good
Lol. I am just trying to add a dash of realism into the mix. For some reason, Pip is so impressed with his own trading and with this firm that he his saying nothing other than to jump in head first. He is even answeing questions about the firm's ability to take traders from the country that they operate from, but I don't think he has read the fine print at the bottom of their front page. Would have been nice to let them explain the meaning of it. I guess he doesn't want his favorite prop firm to be embaressed about explaining why they can't solicite clients from their own country. As such, I am doubting that everything to be known is contained in Pip's encouraging remarks. I am just providing a more sober point of view which comes accross as being less giddy. Cheers.
  • #6,405
  • Jan 23, 2022 6:20pm Jan 23, 2022 6:20pm
Quoting OutThere
{quote} Such a rosey description of the road map to becoming the hot shot prop trader that everyone dreams of. You are someone that makes 52% per year consistantly (1% per week) sound like a walk in the park. All you have to do is select 8 of those successful 52 weeks and roll them into MFF program and you have it made. How much simpler do you want it folks? And oh, btw, once you do that, you get paid bi weekly. Such a bonus. Bi weekly. That tilted the scale for me. Well Pip, I don't know how you trade. You hardly talk about methods. Maybe...
First off, the 5%ers is a completely different model than MFF or FTMO. I had already passed 2 FTMO challenges prior to even taking on the 5%ers. It was the entire reason I was looking to add another firm. You know as well as I do, once I realized what the 5%ers truly was, I gave it a shot for a couple of weeks and then kind of went "all-in" on that account.
I've also never claimed to be a hot shot trader, all but one of my passed challenges with both FTMO and MFF required either 1 or 2 free retakes or an extension (MFF). I actually simultaneously blew my first two FTMO challenges in June 2020. My own fault, I was actually about to pass both and had booked some huge profits on the day and without realizing the time carried some losses into next day and immediately violated.
So what I am stating is this, if you can at least be profitable for 30 days, you never pay another penny. If your "streak" comes in month 2, month 3, whatever, doesn't matter. Once you have passed stage 1, stage 2 is only 5% over 60 days. Once you are funded, the only concern is to not blow the account. There are no targets.
As far as how I do it, once again I've already shared this....I don't use leverage, if I do it's 2:1. So when trading a 200K account, I trade 2 standards ($20/pip), obviously crosses are a bit different, but you get the jist. It's all about controlling the risk, profits do not matter. If you any type of an edge, your profits will come, just control the losses.
I am not an affiliate of any of these companies. I have no benefit speaking for or against. I am simply posting in this thread to share REAL experience. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that was the intention of Mastermind when he started the thread? Started my journey in June 2020 with FTMO, tried the 5%ers in March 2021 to add a second firm, as MFF didn't exist then, been with MFF since July 2021. Everything I speak of is from real experience with these firms. It is why I am so amminant SPEAKING AGAINST the 5%ers and all models molded after them. These firms are in business to make money as well, as such, I can't see any better offerings than the current MFF and FTMO model. After all, we do need this to be mutually beneficial for the trader and the firm. Otherwise, why would they be in business? If they are not in business, there goes our income as well.
  • #6,406
  • Jan 23, 2022 6:35pm Jan 23, 2022 6:35pm
Quoting OutThere
{quote} Just like the gold rush. Who made the money was the stores that sold panning supplies, the guides that helped the gold diggers tru rough trains, the camping and lodging folks and the dealers buying the gold from the desperate gold miners who had found a few dust pieces and needed to buy a can of beens to survive until tomorrow's dream. Years and years later, the truth came out and we all say what fools they were in hopes of getting rich from finding gold. Btw, anyone watched the movie Dead Man? Great movie.
Have to chase your dream, your dream will not chase you back. Do you think the optimist and the pesimist obtain the same results? Or are you one who believes attitude has nothing to do with results?
  • #6,407
  • Jan 23, 2022 7:02pm Jan 23, 2022 7:02pm
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} First off, the 5%ers is a completely different model than MFF or FTMO. I had already passed 2 FTMO challenges prior to even taking on the 5%ers. It was the entire reason I was looking to add another firm. You know as well as I do, once I realized what the 5%ers truly was, I gave it a shot for a couple of weeks and then kind of went "all-in" on that account. I've also never claimed to be a hot shot trader, all but one of my passed challenges with both FTMO and MFF required either 1 or 2 free retakes or an extension (MFF). I actually simultaneously...
No, trading 1:1 or 2:1 is not a trading method and even if that is some kind of strategy to keep risks low, it also results in low gains unless you catch the tops and bottoms and ride them well into exhaustion or you have many many accurate small positive trades. Okay, I don't mean to make you share your methods but still, the 5ers program wasn't a hindrance to your 1:1 or 2:1 that you say is making such a difference. Also, you are saying you found the 5ers program so bad that you decided to murder your account with so many bad consistant trades and these other firms are so great that they give you wings? Man, it is easy to boost you up. Stay away from the blue pill. You don't need it. Just repeat Mff, ftmo under your lips.
  • #6,408
  • Jan 23, 2022 7:10pm Jan 23, 2022 7:10pm
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} Have to chase your dream, your dream will not chase you back. Do you think the optimist and the pesimist obtain the same results? Or are you one who believes attitude has nothing to do with results?
You can be optmist or pesimist all you want but when you hand your hard earned money to a bunch of yahoos that have got their fangs shapened up to suck your blood cause they themselves don't know how to get food from the market, it is best to be a REALIST instead of closing your eyes and pretending you are someone else that has made it and now you are just doing the obvious steps of expanding your trading realms by joining up a slaughter house as the potential meat to be slaughted and served to them fanged ones. Maybe you are there but a lot of what you call optimists aren't there yet.
  • #6,409
  • Jan 23, 2022 9:12pm Jan 23, 2022 9:12pm
Quoting OutThere
{quote} No, trading 1:1 or 2:1 is not a trading method and even if that is some kind of strategy to keep risks low, it also results in low gains unless you catch the tops and bottoms and ride them well into exhaustion or you have many many accurate small positive trades. Okay, I don't mean to make you share your methods but still, the 5ers program wasn't a hindrance to your 1:1 or 2:1 that you say is making such a difference. Also, you are saying you found the 5ers program so bad that you decided to murder your account with so many bad consistent...
Yes, once I realized the 5%ers offered absolutely no benefit, yes I YOLO'd it. Leverage is not a method, I am just trying to demonstrate how to not violate the DD rules. You do not need to trade large nor do you need to catch tops or bottoms, you just need the MEAT in the middle of the move. Trading with 1:1 leverage, 40 pips per day will get you 8% in 20 days, 20 pips per day gets you there in 40. Use 2:1 and, of course, those numbers cut in half.
As far as strategy, I do not mind sharing at all, 75% of my trades are done using weekly pivots, areas in the 61-78-100 zone. Not blindly entering, but watching those areas as they are great reversal points and entering when price confirms. I also use several MAs on the larger time frames. Not for entries, as they are lagging indicators, but to get a bias of bullish o bearish. Reason I do this is to NOT counter trend trade at pivot levels if trend is too strong. Yes, the strategy does involve multiple entries....closing losses quick, adding at better prices, taking partials, adding to winners.
  • #6,410
  • Jan 23, 2022 9:19pm Jan 23, 2022 9:19pm
Quoting OutThere
{quote} You can be optmist or pesimist all you want but when you hand your hard earned money to a bunch of yahoos that have got their fangs shapened up to suck your blood cause they themselves don't know how to get food from the market, it is best to be a REALIST instead of closing your eyes and pretending you are someone else that has made it and now you are just doing the obvious steps of expanding your trading realms by joining up a slaughter house as the potential meat to be slaughted and served to them fanged ones. Maybe you are there but a...
But the market itself has it's fangs sharpened to suck your blood. Following this train of thought, one should really never trade at all. With reward comes risk. When the reward is to trade up to a million with 10% DD allowed and an 85% split, considering fee is refunded and you can just reinvest profits for more challenges to "max out" these firms, I cannot help but have an extremely optimistic view of the opportunity. This is exactly the reason people are miserable all of their lives working 9-5 doing something they absolutely hate vs. the dreamers and risk takers. Obviously, not everyone makes it and most fail. 90% of all new businesses fail within the first two years. So you either make it or atleast say you gave it your best shot. Neither one of those outcomes happen if you simply settle for mediocrity and don't try.
My self help book will be on sale at newstands everywhere.....COMING SOON!!!!
  • #6,411
  • Jan 23, 2022 10:06pm Jan 23, 2022 10:06pm
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} Yes, once I realized the 5%ers offered absolutely no benefit, yes I YOLO'd it. Leverage is not a method, I am just trying to demonstrate how to not violate the DD rules. You do not need to trade large nor do you need to catch tops or bottoms, you just need the MEAT in the middle of the move. Trading with 1:1 leverage, 40 pips per day will get you 8% in 20 days, 20 pips per day gets you there in 40. Use 2:1 and, of course, those numbers cut in half. As far as strategy, I do not mind sharing at all, 75% of my trades are done using weekly pivots,...
Okay, so, you have to make 8% of 200K in 20 days. 16K/20= $800 per day with 1:1 leverage. Small trades. God forbid you hit a slow stretch in between your weekly pivots for one day cause your will have to make twice the next day. God forbid even more if you have a losing day or two and then to keep up with the pace, you will have to make 2 or 3 times your daily goal. Do you remember the 5ers making it sound so easy? Something like you have to only make 10%. 7 times in row to get millions of funds given to you to trade? You kinda doing the same thing. They have have to reel in the doe and hypnotize the dreamers to throw fresh flopping meat to the end of their hooks but what is in it for you? Those fluffy little cuddly fave prop firms of yours aren't making enough cash already and you are worried they go bust soon and you are giving them a hand so they float a while longer while you get your pay cheques from them?
Anyone whose trading is configured and refined enough to know how to use leverage properly and has a consistent method of making profits day over day along with a whole lot of other stuff to do in order to keep the money they are making day after day, is already smart enough to know what prop firm to go with and what is in store for them. IDK man, your tone is impressing the naïve and the dreamer and the wannabe.
I say, go refine your method for months or even longer until you are nothing but a trading wizard and then throw a bone to the prop firms. Just a month of doing well or 3 months isn't enough. Look at how slow this month is and even December was slow. If you have done well recently and think this is how it's going to always be, yah, you are that meat on the hook. I don't mean you Pip cause obviously you have reached the wizardry stage but I mean your audience that is so impressed with your quick 8% per 20 days plan.
  • #6,412
  • Jan 23, 2022 10:18pm Jan 23, 2022 10:18pm
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} But the market itself has it's fangs sharpened to suck your blood. Following this train of thought, one should really never trade at all. With reward comes risk. When the reward is to trade up to a million with 10% DD allowed and an 85% split, considering fee is refunded and you can just reinvest profits for more challenges to "max out" these firms, I cannot help but have an extremely optimistic view of the opportunity. This is exactly the reason people are miserable all of their lives working 9-5 doing something they absolutely hate vs....
See, there you go again. The market has fangs and will devour you anyway, so you might as well go and jump in because maybe there is a hope for you with the prop firms. Well, be as optimistic as you want but you contribute greatly to these forums and are ever present and basically you are pumping these couple firms. Someone is going to believe you and jump on your ever dancing happily coattail and say look at me, I am just like Pip. All for what? Giving it your best shot? 90% of all new businesses fail within the first two years, so you might as well fail like the 90%? Well pip, I am glad you are not my life coach. You make a good bungy jump instructor. Go jump my friend cause by the time you hit the ground, you won't even realize when the cord had snapped or if it was even tied to anything at all. YOLO everybody. Live a short but exciting life. Everyone line up behind me...on a count of three, we all jump...YaaaaHoooo
You've done well Pip. Your fave prop firms love you and that is an understatement.
  • #6,413
  • Jan 23, 2022 10:29pm Jan 23, 2022 10:29pm
Quoting OutThere
{quote} Okay, so, you have to make 8% of 200K in 20 days. 16K/20= $800 per day with 1:1 leverage. Small trades. God forbid you hit a slow stretch in between your weekly pivots for one day cause your will have to make twice the next day. God forbid even more if you have a losing day or two and then to keep up with the pace, you will have to make 2 or 3 times your daily goal. Do you remember the 5ers making it sound so easy? Something like you have to only make 10%. 7 times in row to get millions of funds given to you to trade? You kinda doing the...
I agree 100%, every day is not raining money. Some days I do not even trade. I already have my areas of interest identified weekly and daily, if price doesn't get there, no trade. Some days, just pure market sentiment can be the driver, this past week with the risk off Thursday and Friday, pretty easy to sell the DOW, S&P, NAS and all JPY pairs. You also, in reality have 40 trading days with MFF and now 30 with FTMO. You may not pass the first time, but you go again free even if you are up a penny.
Once funded, all of that is irrelevant, as there are no targets or time limits, just don't break the DD limits. Here, risk can be reduced to the bare minimum and you should still be able to AVERAGE 1% per week. One good runner will take care of that.
You're right, they do lure in the dreamers, but so does every broker. This truly is no different. 90% fail, whether it being funding and constantly topping off your personal account or giving it a go with a challenge.
The reward of passing a challenge is you are trading with 20-24X the amount you would have in a personal account and I am only taking into account the DD they allow you. You pay $979 for 24K in DD with MFF, $1200 for 20K in DD with FTMO, or do a 100K for half those amounts. With the 5%ers, you pay what was it $860-$870 for $800 in DD, HUGE difference and then the split was only 50%.
Bottom line is, it's definitely not for everyone, just like trading is not for everyone. I guess we can just leave it at that.
  • #6,414
  • Jan 23, 2022 10:34pm Jan 23, 2022 10:34pm
Quoting OutThere
{quote} See, there you go again. The market has fangs and will devour you anyway, so you might as well go and jump in because maybe there is a hope for you with the prop firms. Well, be as optimistic as you want but you contribute greatly to these forums and are ever present and basically you are pumping these couple firms. Someone is going to believe you and jump on your ever dancing happily coattail and say look at me, I am just like Pip. All for what? Giving it your best shot? 90% of all new businesses fail within the first two years, so you...
No, what I am saying is the market is what it is. If you trade your own account, the market is still out to get you. I stated the 90% of businesses fail simply to demonstrate there is risk to reward. Mediocrity vs. living the life you want. There is no one living the life they want that hasn't taken some chances along the way. You are twisting the message.
Let's just call it what it is....we are obviously two COMPLETELY DIFFERENT THINKING PEOPLE (which is OK). However, we will never see eye to eye on anything, other than the 5%ers being completely worthless.
  • #6,415
  • Jan 23, 2022 10:42pm Jan 23, 2022 10:42pm
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} No, what I am saying is the market is what it is. If you trade your own account, the market is still out to get you. I stated the 90% of businesses fail simply to demonstrate there is risk to reward. Mediocrity vs. living the life you want. There is no one living the life they want that hasn't taken some chances along the way. You are twisting the message. Let's just call it what it is....we are obviously two COMPLETELY DIFFERENT THINKING PEOPLE (which is OK). However, we will never see eye to eye on anything, other than the 5%ers being...
Ok, yes let's give a break to promoting the zombie man eater prop firms for a while (reference to the latest Hell boy movie). They already have perfected their methods. Let them enjoy the brains they have already sucked out in peace.
  • #6,416
  • Jan 24, 2022 1:47am Jan 24, 2022 1:47am
When it comes to business, reaching goals, self-improvement et al., I choose positivity over negativity any day of the week.

Better to surround yourself with positive people and ignore negative people that always complain and doubt everything; people like that are a poison and will try to suck the light out of everything that is good.
  • #6,417
  • Jan 24, 2022 2:43am Jan 24, 2022 2:43am
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} if you can at least be profitable for 30 days, you never pay another penny. If your "streak" comes in month 2, month 3, whatever, doesn't matter. Once you have passed stage 1, stage 2 is only 5% over 60 days. Once you are funded, the only concern is to not blow the account. There are no targets. l.
I think you perfectly nailed it here. These prop firms have definitely found a fantastic source of income and i've nailed it. They are in a business that already has one of the highest failure rates of all who start out ( higher than 90%) and then on top of that, they dangle a very juicy carrot of getting funded in 10/5 days that attracts even more gamblers to an already tough business which just ensures that more than 95% of all who attempt will fail. Remember that 90% of people who start trading are lured in thinking it's a get rich scheme and most never take the time to properly learn how to trade and these prop firms are making a killing off this lot.

However, once you get past the excitement of being funded in 1 week, you will realize that what pipmaster wrote really makes sense. If you can just reign in the impulse to get this done very fast, you just need to be positive in your 1st month and wait for your good month to come and push you over the initial 10 or 8% target. And then just take it very slow but sure from there in.
  • #6,418
  • Jan 24, 2022 7:27am Jan 24, 2022 7:27am
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} First off, the 5%ers is a completely different model than MFF or FTMO. I had already passed 2 FTMO challenges prior to even taking on the 5%ers. It was the entire reason I was looking to add another firm. You know as well as I do, once I realized what the 5%ers truly was, I gave it a shot for a couple of weeks and then kind of went "all-in" on that account. I've also never claimed to be a hot shot trader, all but one of my passed challenges with both FTMO and MFF required either 1 or 2 free retakes or an extension (MFF). I actually simultaneously...
Yes absolutely correct, it's all about traders sharing experiences and debating about the good and bad of retail Prop Firms.

Your contributions to this thread are top rate.

Masterrmind .........
Master your Mind then Master your Trades
  • #6,419
  • Jan 24, 2022 6:39pm Jan 24, 2022 6:39pm
few days ago iwas asked here if some one has any issue with new mff demo server. i used thier early one. server-2 now they r providing server one. and got few issues. today my gbpnzd trades sl hunts for 84 pips. while i have same trade with few other broker none was closed. nor the spread goes near to that. really disapointing. mailed them with SS. waiting for thier response.
  • #6,420
  • Jan 24, 2022 10:08pm Jan 24, 2022 10:08pm
Quoting inversio
few days ago iwas asked here if some one has any issue with new mff demo server. i used thier early one. server-2 now they r providing server one. and got few issues. today my gbpnzd trades sl hunts for 84 pips. while i have same trade with few other broker none was closed. nor the spread goes near to that. really disapointing. mailed them with SS. waiting for thier response.
That's a beast of a symbol that you're trading.

Even so 84 pips during what I assume was the Asian session is rather nasty, not very likely but certainly possible.

Can you share a screenshot here ?

You might like to visit the discord too.

Keep us updated.

Masterrmind .........
Master your Mind then Master your Trades
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