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  • #5,561
  • Edited 11:14pm Nov 17, 2021 10:56pm | Edited 11:14pm
Quoting mlseenie
the only bad thing i see if the drawdown limits and the payout cap.. ..I think to improve they need to increase the drawdown limits and either remove or increase that payout cap rule
-Well, that is what we are talking about, after all. It seems that you answered your own question.

I find it disconcerting that their reasoning for the payout caps is to 'maintain payouts'. If real trading is occurring, then what is there to maintain?

Also noticed that they offer an amazing 1:1 leverage for crypto. Would be curious to see what kind of spreads and commission come with that sort of deal.

Here is another gem:
Quote
If we find a trader to be using an unrealistic trading system they will not be eligible for funding. For example placing 1 trade with a huge lot size to pass our Evaluation.
-So, I guess passing the evaluation with a huge trade is not realistic.
  • #5,562
  • Nov 18, 2021 1:16am Nov 18, 2021 1:16am
Quoting Nsak3y
{quote}-Well, that is what we are talking about, after all. It seems that you answered your own question. I find it disconcerting that their reasoning for the payout caps is to 'maintain payouts'. If real trading is occurring, then what is there to maintain? Also noticed that they offer an amazing 1:1 leverage for crypto. Would be curious to see what kind of spreads and commission come with that sort of deal. Here is another gem: {quote}-So, I guess passing the evaluation with a huge trade is not realistic.

I will not be signing up to any firm with a max payout cap of 4% monthly, but i assure you that if Funding talent had such a limitation in place they would still be around.
I see the reasoning behind it, especially when you consider that it would reduce the risk of certain funded traders trying to buy their first private jets with the first payout, thereby depleting accounts.
  • #5,563
  • Nov 18, 2021 2:45am Nov 18, 2021 2:45am
Quoting Nsak3y
{quote} I find it disconcerting that their reasoning for the payout caps is to 'maintain payouts'. If real trading is occurring, then what is there to maintain?
If real trading was occurring they should be happy if a trader made 1M because they would get a ton of profit. Why such a stupid thing like limiting it to 4K ?

They were not very clever. Everybody here knows that these business models are based in paying winnings with lost fees, but these guys went one step ahead and basically stated that in written terms.
  • #5,564
  • Nov 18, 2021 4:02am Nov 18, 2021 4:02am
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} Keeps bringing me to my 7 famous letters....M F F F T M O
  • #5,565
  • Nov 18, 2021 4:12am Nov 18, 2021 4:12am
ECB's Panetta: A digital euro prototype will be developed in 2023.

Why?
  • #5,566
  • Nov 18, 2021 4:33am Nov 18, 2021 4:33am
enfoid law caught up.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
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offering my system to copy trade. check my link
  • #5,567
  • Nov 18, 2021 4:46am Nov 18, 2021 4:46am
Quoting nikosk0
enfoid law caught up. {image}
According with their site they are based in Singapure
  • #5,568
  • Nov 18, 2021 4:56am Nov 18, 2021 4:56am
Quoting Nsak3y
{quote}-Most of these programs require you to hit targets that are exactly like flipping/compounding your account (or more). Your profits serve as draw-down for the scale-up in most cases. Again, not sure about 5ers, but in most cases, the scale-up is an illusion because it is the draw-down that matters, not the account size
All my calculations are based on expectancy which is based on risk units that are derived from considering worst case loss streak scenarios based on drawdown limits. The scale-up is not an illusion from that perspective, but yes, after recalculating, a 500x foreign account is definitely the fastest way to scale, using the same expectancy (much higher percentage risk of that small account size, but with 500x its easy to recover from since so little equity is needed to keep sizing the same).

Now, as far as the hitting targets that are exactly like compounding, the difference is this: I didn't get into this so I could be slave-driven with insane pressure to meet deadline targets. The ultimate freedom of trading is to do things at one's own pace. These challenges are the opposite. I mean, if someone likes that kind of thing, maybe they should try for a career at a physical trading desk office, where that kind of hard-driving ambitious work ethic is what they love.
  • #5,569
  • Nov 18, 2021 5:14am Nov 18, 2021 5:14am
Quoting Capablanca
{quote} If real trading was occurring they should be happy if a trader made 1M because they would get a ton of profit. Why such a stupid thing like limiting it to 4K ? They were not very clever. Everybody here knows that these business models are based in paying winnings with lost fees, but these guys went one step ahead and basically stated that in written terms.
The thing is trading is a zero sum game everytime you make money someone has lost money that's just how the game works however I am currently looking for a prop firm that suits me in my trading style
  • #5,570
  • Nov 18, 2021 5:34am Nov 18, 2021 5:34am
Quoting Ross88
{quote} The thing is trading is a zero sum game everytime you make money someone has lost money that's just how the game works however I am currently looking for a prop firm that suits me in my trading style
Geezus Ross, still haven't found one?
Outline your trading style here and let the god recommend you one.
  • #5,571
  • Nov 18, 2021 6:10am Nov 18, 2021 6:10am
Quoting Expo33
{quote} Their prices, targets, rules are decent for me but this infantile nonsense doesn't appeal to me. I'm sure their target market is a bit younger than me. {image} For "real' prop firms try the "prop firm delete" thread.

Wow a whole 4 years experience, must be a real professional.
  • #5,572
  • Nov 18, 2021 6:41am Nov 18, 2021 6:41am
Quoting Koop
{quote} Geezus Ross, still haven't found one? Outline your trading style here and let the god recommend you one.
I will make one of my trade explorers public have a look and see for yourself

The problem for me is the time limits 30-days to achieve 10% for me would involve a level of gambling that I'm not comfortable with I'm fully aware other people have a completely different style and system which basically means the 10 day time limit is basically a maths test they only have to make small mathematical adjustments to achieve the targets

Any help or suggestions will be appreciated if anyone has an input they would like to give me I am always happy to listen

I have been considering about opening a Pam account if anyone would like to give me some info on that I know this is not the thread for it so I welcome a private message or to be directed to the correct thread

Good luck everyone I hope you achieve your trading targets for the day/week /month/year
  • #5,573
  • Nov 18, 2021 6:50am Nov 18, 2021 6:50am
Quoting mlseenie
Joined to ask if anyone has heard of www.bluegaurdiancapital.com ? Saw them shared on discords and someone said they got paid but want to know if anyone knows if they're legit in here. {image}
Their founder and CEO is 18 years old and has "4 years trading experience" so he started trading when he was 14? Wow.

Not sure how I feel trusting an 18 year old owning a prop firm...
Truth is like poetry. And most people f*cking hate poetry.
  • #5,574
  • Nov 18, 2021 7:01am Nov 18, 2021 7:01am
Quoting mrdfx
{quote} Their founder and CEO is 18 years old and has "4 years trading experience" so he started trading when he was 14? Wow. Not sure how I feel trusting an 18 year old owning a prop firm...
these types of companies just encourage me more about FTMO and MFF because its not a playschool sandbox like these firms.
  • #5,575
  • Nov 18, 2021 7:28am Nov 18, 2021 7:28am
Quoting Ross88
{quote} I will make one of my trade explorers public have a look and see for yourself The problem for me is the time limits 30-days to achieve 10% for me would involve a level of gambling that I'm not comfortable with I'm fully aware other people have a completely different style and system which basically means the 10 day time limit is basically a maths test they only have to make small mathematical adjustments to achieve the targets Any help or suggestions will be appreciated if anyone has an input they would like to give me I am always happy...
You could go with the Rapid at MFF Non Consistent Account although it's a long process to get your fee back (minimum 4 months), you do however earn 12% per month which should cover your costs within a couple of months depending how you trade and you are looking at a minimum 3 months to get a small live account which runs alongside the 12% paying demo account. This is then scaled up, although it won't make you rich (if you live in Europe anyway).

Or.... if you are trading well on the Evaluation they may consider an extension to that account if they think you have good risk management and not a EA jockey... although you need to check with them as I think this is discretionary.

Not sure if FTMO offer extensions (with current trading balance)? If they did I would trade with them as well.
  • #5,576
  • Nov 18, 2021 7:33am Nov 18, 2021 7:33am
Quoting Fagin
{quote} You could go with the Rapid at MFF Non Consistent Account although it's a long process to get your fee back (minimum 4 months), you do however earn 12% per month which should cover your costs within a couple of months depending how you trade and you are looking at a minimum 3 months to get a small live account which runs alongside the 12% paying demo account. This is then scaled up, although it won't make you rich (if you live in Europe anyway). Or.... if you are trading well on the Evaluation they may consider an extension to that account...
FTMO is only free retry (if in profit). MFF has option of free retry or one time extension.
  • #5,577
  • Nov 18, 2021 7:34am Nov 18, 2021 7:34am
Quoting Ross88
{quote} I will make one of my trade explorers public have a look and see for yourself The problem for me is the time limits 30-days to achieve 10% for me would involve a level of gambling that I'm not comfortable with I'm fully aware other people have a completely different style and system which basically means the 10 day time limit is basically a maths test they only have to make small mathematical adjustments to achieve the targets Any help or suggestions will be appreciated if anyone has an input they would like to give me I am always happy...
I am extremely familiar with the trading system you use. I PM'd you.
  • #5,578
  • Nov 18, 2021 7:37am Nov 18, 2021 7:37am
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} FTMO is only free retry (if in profit). MFF has option of free retry or one time extension.
Thought so, that to me is a big differential in the apparent motives of each company IMHO...
  • #5,579
  • Nov 18, 2021 7:47am Nov 18, 2021 7:47am
Quoting Fagin
{quote} Thought so, that to me is a big differential in the apparent motives of each company IMHO...
I would agree 100% with that statement. FTMO is great as far as credibility, longevity, trading conditions, etc. I also am 100% that they are executing in a live environment somewhere, somehow. However, they are definitely structured where the fees are a MUCH LARGER revenue component than MFF.
I believe, once MFF is 100% automated and works some bugs out, they will be clear #1.
  • #5,580
  • Nov 18, 2021 8:14am Nov 18, 2021 8:14am
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} I would agree 100% with that statement. FTMO is great as far as credibility, longevity, trading conditions, etc. I also am 100% that they are executing in a live environment somewhere, somehow. However, they are definitely structured where the fees are a MUCH LARGER revenue component than MFF. I believe, once MFF is 100% automated and works some bugs out, they will be clear #1.
Yep, I think so unless FTMO change tact.

With this outbreak of suppliers of simulated MT4 accounts (I can't bring myself to call them Prop as they are not) they are creating a race to the bottom undercutting the sign-on fees and offering discounts, etc. So is this really a viable business in the foreseeable? Not sure but the demand certainly seems very high, I'm guessing they blow their money and use the gamblers fallacy to open another account and blow that one, then onto the next etc.. It's a bit like an expensive recurring lottery ticket!

A genuine remote prop firm can charge what they like, if you can trade it's not really an issue only a barrier depending on your own financial situation. So offering coupons, special deals etc is only to pull in the suckers and does no good for reputation.

What would be cool is seeing some established props come into this space to find the talent as well. I imagine soon they may have to if their "work for nothing after Uni for a year and we might give you a job" candidates fail to turn up because they can get funded at home instead...?
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