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  • #5,041
  • Nov 3, 2021 10:39am Nov 3, 2021 10:39am
Quoting JotaP
Today DOT had a trading volume of $720 Million on Binance. From my accountings you were trading about 400 MT4 lots (lot size 10, corresponds to 4000 DOT) on the second trade. So, it was a purchase of $172754.52 (1 DOT=$43.18863) I don't know if this order had the capability to move the market price from $43.18863 to $44.48200. Probably, if it was placed all at the same time. This the FTMO argument, I believe.
I was building my positions gradually, did not buy all that amount at once, so I don't think it would move the real market price when going up. On that day (Oct 25) the total market volume traded was $1.36 Billion (see coinmarketcap) and my positions were worth $445k combined (10,000 units at the market price $44.5).

I closed them all at once which wasn't the best thing to do but still that was only about 0.03% of the total DOT volume traded on that day. Was it too much? Would it move the market? I don't know.

Once in the past I came across some FTMO statement that their demo accounts were supposed to simulate the real market conditions (by adding the slippage, spread widening etc.) so I assumed when closing this volume the demo account would just add the slippage equivalent to the live market (though still simulated based on their LP's available volume etc.). Well, apparently, it does not as my positions were closed almost instantly at the market price (which was still heading up)
Money is made by sitting, not trading
  • #5,042
  • Nov 3, 2021 10:52am Nov 3, 2021 10:52am
Quoting Vitore
{quote} I was building my positions gradually, did not buy all that amount at once, so I don't think it would move the real market price when going up. On that day (Oct 25) the total market volume traded was $1.36 Billion (see coinmarketcap) and my positions were worth $445k combined (10,000 units at the market price $44.5). I closed them all at once which wasn't the best thing to do but still that was only about 0.03% of the total DOT volume traded on that day. Was...

Why the living f... would you provide demo conditions on such a low liquidity item.

Holy crap that is some stupiddddddddddddddddd shit. I wonder how many people have been doing that at ftmo for a long time and gotten paid and then told their friends now everyone knows and ftmo are cracking down.

FT had the same problem with straddlers, people were making tonnees of money and since FT died, those people disappeared.

"We are a prop firm, make money with us, but you can execute unlimited volume at one price, we will only cry if too many people do it".

You only provide top of the book quotes if you only have a single price on the feed. Now I worry about my FTMO accounts.
  • #5,043
  • Nov 3, 2021 10:55am Nov 3, 2021 10:55am
Quoting Vitore
On that day (Oct 25) the total market volume traded was $1.36 Billion (see coinmarketcap) and my positions were worth $445k combined (10,000 units at the market price $44.5). I closed them all at once which wasn't the best thing to do but still that was only about 0.03% of the total DOT volume traded on that day. Was it too much? Would it move the market? I don't know.
-As I said, it will depend on the exchange that they use. The total traded volume is the sum of volume across all major exchanges that are listed on CMC. Likely, FTMO uses a single exchange, and volume can vary greatly, depending on which exchange that they use.

Pairs like DOTUSD should NOT be available for challenges. That is just stupid.
  • #5,044
  • Nov 3, 2021 10:59am Nov 3, 2021 10:59am
Quoting Nsak3y
{quote}-As I said, it will depend on the exchange that they use. The total traded volume is the sum of volume across all major exchanges that are listed on CMC. Likely, FTMO uses a single exchange, and volume can vary greatly, depending on which exchange that they use.

If there is leverage, they are not using an exchange.
  • #5,045
  • Nov 3, 2021 11:03am Nov 3, 2021 11:03am
Quoting Takisd
{quote} Why the living f... would you provide demo conditions on such a low liquidity item. Holy crap that is some stupiddddddddddddddddd shit. I wonder how many people have been doing that at ftmo for a long time and gotten paid and then told their friends now everyone knows and ftmo are cracking down. FT had the same problem with straddlers, people were making tonnees of money and since FT died, those people disappeared. "We are a prop firm, make money with us, but you can execute unlimited volume at one price, we will only cry if too many people...
Wow , they really shot themselves in the foot on that one. Adding more and more coins was guaranteed to give them more headaches, it's unfortunate Vltore got caught in their mess.
  • #5,046
  • Nov 3, 2021 11:07am Nov 3, 2021 11:07am
Quoting Takisd
If there is leverage, they are not using an exchange.
-Please explain.
  • #5,047
  • Nov 3, 2021 11:14am Nov 3, 2021 11:14am
Quoting Nsak3y
{quote}-Please explain.

Can you find somewhere you can trade dot with 1:10 - 1:100 leverage and the order hits the orderbook?
  • #5,048
  • Nov 3, 2021 11:20am Nov 3, 2021 11:20am
Quoting Takisd
{quote} Can you find somewhere you can trade dot with 1:10 - 1:100 leverage and the order hits the orderbook?
FTMO leverage on DOT is "only" 1:5 jfyi
Money is made by sitting, not trading
  • #5,049
  • Nov 3, 2021 11:31am Nov 3, 2021 11:31am
Quoting Takisd
Can you find somewhere you can trade dot with 1:10 - 1:100 leverage and the order hits the orderbook?
-Not sure how this explains your previous comment. Unless I am misunderstanding your point. DOTUSD is not a widely-traded pair, so volume and leverage is usually lacking. But leverage is available for cryptocurrency (and even DOT), even on exchanges.

Quoting Vitore
FTMO leverage on DOT is "only" 1:5 jfyi
-Yes, you do not need much at all. You can trade the 5-minute chart and see 5% moves in under an hour.
  • #5,050
  • Nov 3, 2021 11:43am Nov 3, 2021 11:43am
Quoting Takisd
{quote} Why the living f... would you provide demo conditions on such a low liquidity item. Holy crap that is some stupiddddddddddddddddd shit. I wonder how many people have been doing that at ftmo for a long time and gotten paid and then told their friends now everyone knows and ftmo are cracking down. FT had the same problem with straddlers, people were making tonnees of money and since FT died, those people disappeared. "We are a prop firm, make money with us, but you can execute unlimited volume at one price, we will only cry if too many people...
They added DOT, DOGE and ADA as of October, literarily a few days before I started my Challenge. So it's very new. On the other hand, DOT is the 8th largest coin by market cap and 12th largest by the daily traded volume. One of the most interesting altcoins for institutional investors/traders as well as for retail

My (apparently naive) assumption was they had it covered by their LPs. What did I expect. My bad. I really believed FTMO was more professional than this...

Quoting Nsak3y
{quote}-Yes, you do not need much at all. You can trade the 5-minute chart and see 5% moves in under an hour.
True. DOT can move over 10% within a few hours but my positions (those that matter) were open between 10 and 30 hours. No scalping.

Quoting Nsak3y
{quote}DOTUSD is not a widely-traded pair, so volume and leverage is usually lacking.
As for the DOT volume - see above. Not widely traded but still among the top 10
Money is made by sitting, not trading
  • #5,051
  • Nov 3, 2021 11:57am Nov 3, 2021 11:57am
I stopped trading cryptocurrency because of volume, as well as trading fees and regulatory nonsense. Trying to trade via a broker can be a joke sometimes too because the spreads and/or fees are usually heavily-inflated, even if the exchange that the broker uses has a zero spread 99% of the time.

Quoting Vitore
As for the DOT volume - see above. Not widely traded but still among the top 10
-But the exchange that they use might have junk volume for that pair. I am sure that things have changed since I stopped trading crypto, but when I was trading, there were only a few pairs that were even tradable with leverage, and DOT was not one of them.
  • #5,052
  • Nov 3, 2021 12:31pm Nov 3, 2021 12:31pm
Quoting Nsak3y
I stopped trading cryptocurrency because of volume, as well as trading fees and regulatory nonsense. Trying to trade via a broker can be a joke sometimes too because the spreads and/or fees are usually heavily-inflated, even if the exchange that the broker uses has a zero spread 99% of the time. {quote}-But the exchange that they use might have junk volume for that pair. I am sure that things have changed since I stopped trading crypto, but when I was trading, there were only a few pairs that were even tradable with leverage, and DOT was not one...
I get that. DOT gained the public attention only lately. I trade it on my live account with Pepperstone and, though I trade much smaller volumes (~100; I know it is 100 times smaller than on my Verification) the liquidity seems just fine with very narrow spread (even better than what FTMO offers) and virtually no slippage. I just get the market price almost precisely.

Unlike some other coins they added lately as well (XLM, ADA, DOGE, UNI - all those have terrible spreads) DOT seemed to be rather liquid. That's why I chose it over the rest for my personal account and then FTMO as well. At least my personal account grows due to the DOT popularity when FTMO sucks...
Money is made by sitting, not trading
  • #5,053
  • Nov 3, 2021 12:40pm Nov 3, 2021 12:40pm
Hopefully, your experience with FTMO will lead to change, because allowing traders access to such pairs for the challenge does not seem wise. I really, really hope that they have enough sense to see the problem and to give you another fair shot.
  • #5,054
  • Nov 3, 2021 1:02pm Nov 3, 2021 1:02pm
Quoting Nsak3y
Hopefully, your experience with FTMO will lead to change, because allowing traders access to such pairs for the challenge does not seem wise. I really, really hope that they have enough sense to see the problem and to give you another fair shot.
Thank you. I agree it's unwise offering instruments which only lead you to failure due to their inability to execute the trades. They seem to be willing to let me retake the verification but I'm rather disappointed anyways.
Money is made by sitting, not trading
  • #5,055
  • Nov 3, 2021 1:20pm Nov 3, 2021 1:20pm
Quoting Vitore
but I'm rather disappointed anyways.
-I don't blame you at all. As traders, we should stick together and hold these firms accountable. I will back anyone that is treated wrongfully, but if I think that a trader is making a bogus claim, then I will call them out on it, even if they believe in their heart that firms should pay more than they are obligated to pay.
  • #5,056
  • Nov 3, 2021 2:29pm Nov 3, 2021 2:29pm
Quoting Nsak3y
{quote}-I don't blame you at all. As traders, we should stick together and hold these firms accountable. I will back anyone that is treated wrongfully, but if I think that a trader is making a bogus claim, then I will call them out on it, even if they believe in their heart that firms should pay more than they are obligated to pay.
Thanks, appreciated

The funny thing is when you compare an introductory sentence from the email they sent me...

"we strive to encourage and support a professional approach to trading"

with their YT, FB and IG channels full of "success stories" celebrating their traders' profits of 60, 70, or even 100k USD achieved per month on 100-200k accounts...

Not sure what to think about their intentions anymore
Money is made by sitting, not trading
  • #5,057
  • Nov 3, 2021 2:39pm Nov 3, 2021 2:39pm
Yes, it is silly. FTMO is not the only one, either. These firms are so quick to share crazy success stories where traders are clearly over-leveraging their accounts, yet claim to be all about proper risk management and professional trading etc..

We know what these firms are all about, though.

At the end of the day, I do not care about what other traders are doing, or even if a firm is spreading an irresponsible message to newbie traders, all so long as I can generate profits and get paid for my efforts.
  • #5,058
  • Nov 3, 2021 2:54pm Nov 3, 2021 2:54pm
Quoting Nsak3y
{quote}-I don't blame you at all. As traders, we should stick together and hold these firms accountable. I will back anyone that is treated wrongfully, but if I think that a trader is making a bogus claim, then I will call them out on it, even if they believe in their heart that firms should pay more than they are obligated to pay.
Attached Image

JotaP!!!!
  • #5,059
  • Nov 3, 2021 4:10pm Nov 3, 2021 4:10pm
Quoting Nsak3y
{quote}-Not sure how this explains your previous comment. Unless I am misunderstanding your point. DOTUSD is not a widely-traded pair, so volume and leverage is usually lacking. But leverage is available for cryptocurrency (and even DOT), even on exchanges. {quote}-Yes, you do not need much at all. You can trade the 5-minute chart and see 5% moves in under an hour.

FTMO are providing leveraged crypto, you are talking about them connecting to an exchange.

If you cannot trade leveraged DOT on an exchange, then FTMO is not connected to an exchange. If there is someone actually clearing the trades in the background its likely a CFD provider who is booking all the trades and this event hurt their book so they took action and FTMO, not knowing any wiser, complied because they had to.
  • #5,060
  • Nov 3, 2021 4:14pm Nov 3, 2021 4:14pm
Quoting Vitore
{quote} They added DOT, DOGE and ADA as of October, literarily a few days before I started my Challenge. So it's very new. On the other hand, DOT is the 8th largest coin by market cap and 12th largest by the daily traded volume. One of the most interesting altcoins for institutional investors/traders as well as for retail My (apparently naive) assumption was they had it covered by their LPs. What did I expect. My bad. I really believed FTMO was more professional than this... {quote} True. DOT can move over 10% within a few hours but my positions...

Crypto, including DOT, is very thin liquidity. I would be skeptical of any company providing good fills and execution on reasonable sized orders for that crypto. Even BTC liquidity per price is thin unless the broker is taking the other side of it.
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