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  • #4,221
  • Sep 29, 2021 10:59am Sep 29, 2021 10:59am
Maybe I am part of a minority group of people that believe this way, but I do not believe that all of these non-traditional prop firms are operating as a ponzi.
MFF, for example, appears to be operating as a legitimate firm. It would be difficult to know, for sure, about any firm, but the thing to be learned from this, is to mitigate risk by way of diversification, to not put all of your eggs into one basket and to have backup plans in place.
  • #4,222
  • Sep 29, 2021 10:59am Sep 29, 2021 10:59am
Quoting Dao-trades
{quote} Feel the same way, I'm worried about what will happen to FTMO and MFF, if this makes a big impact - do you think regulators will be fine with their business models?
imho, it s not like they were operating from the underground thus far, and regulators just seen them. they should regulate their mothers in all honesty, cos they ve already set a tax on everything under the sun. this is not about protecting the little guy, it s more about makin sure he or she stays where they are. if every1 would make it big or become doctors, lawyers, sucesfull traders who d work the ground, the nasty jobs lol..plus more easy to control and manipulate the middle class when they haven t got 2 many options. and FT was a crap, first sign was when they started to negotiate the payouts with people that did good profits in a month..i mean, wtf is that? they do not negociate the fees for the accounts but they do on payouts... again, if there was something wrong with FTMO and now MFF model i m pretty sure the d been flagged by now and under scrutiny as u always have the ignorant people that don t do the research, they aren t ready to trade and instead on blaming themselfs they start shouting from the rooftops...
  • #4,223
  • Sep 29, 2021 11:01am Sep 29, 2021 11:01am
Quoting Koop
{quote} That is a serious concern.
Well Koop, if it becomes an issue, I am going to have you open a Tickmill account for me. I absolutely will not trade with Oanda, Gain, TDAmeritrade or any other disgusting option available in the US. I'll trust you to pay me, maybe even give ya a little cut.
  • #4,224
  • Sep 29, 2021 11:03am Sep 29, 2021 11:03am
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} Well Koop, if it becomes an issue, I am going to have you open a Tickmill account for me. I absolutely will not trade with Oanda, Gain, TDAmeritrade or any other disgusting option available in the US. I'll trust you to pay me, maybe even give ya a little cut.

I don't think the industry is done. There are plenty of alternatives to FT.

I am start to smell a warning sign with FTMO based on their profit split and payout change. Something tells me that was a market share loss move that actually is negative not positive. I'll take the extra payout money but I think that rather than a "oh wow" it looks more like a crack in the wall.

Reminds me of FT's 90% move a little too much now.

Save us daniel savage.
  • #4,225
  • Sep 29, 2021 11:07am Sep 29, 2021 11:07am
Quoting Takisd
{quote} I don't think the industry is done. There are plenty of alternatives to FT. I am start to smell a warning sign with FTMO based on their profit split and payout change. Something tells me that was a market share loss move that actually is negative not positive. I'll take the extra payout money but I think that rather than a "oh wow" it looks more like a crack in the wall. Reminds me of FT's 90% move a little too much now. Save us daniel savage.
imo the failure rate on their sheets must be so high that it reall doesn t matter, it just draws more clients. and the 1s that do make it for the scale in are far 2 few to count, so overall they would increase profits i guess
  • #4,226
  • Sep 29, 2021 11:09am Sep 29, 2021 11:09am
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} Well Koop, if it becomes an issue, I am going to have you open a Tickmill account for me. I absolutely will not trade with Oanda, Gain, TDAmeritrade or any other disgusting option available in the US. I'll trust you to pay me, maybe even give ya a little cut.
haha.. Totally forgot. You guys are going to feel the hammer the most.
Might be time to start making that move to the Caribbeans Pip. I hear The Bahamas is quite lovely.

I don't even want to think about the possible collapse of the industry.
What's gonna happen to all the islands i planned to buy? You mean i;ll never get to bare my flat ass in a private Jet like Jessica "Wolf Of Online Street" Ghaney ?
  • #4,227
  • Sep 29, 2021 11:14am Sep 29, 2021 11:14am
I honestly think that the increased profit share at FTMO is not something that is a cause for concern. Maybe I will end up eating my words, but even firms like MFF have admitted that they started with investment capital in place, but quickly found that the company was able to easily operate on its own once they started growing.

In other words, there were enough people paying for challenges to support the entire business model.

Sine FTMO is so popular, it seems likely that they can afford to pay out 90% of profits for good traders while still managing to support the business and generate sufficient profits because of the revenue that they generate through failed challenges.

And since most traders fail, that seems even more believable.

That being said, I do not know if FTMO actually pushes trades to a live account or not. If I had to bet money, I would have more confidence betting on MFF in that regard, as far as being legitimate.

That is only because I have watched their videos and heard their lead trader talking about all of the behind-the-scenes details and the hurdles that they are having to overcome and the reasoning given for things that seem to indicate that they are actually pushing trades to a live market.

Just my opinion, of course. Every trader must do their own, due diligence and weigh the risks accordingly.
  • #4,228
  • Sep 29, 2021 11:16am Sep 29, 2021 11:16am
Quoting Takisd
{quote} I don't think the industry is done. There are plenty of alternatives to FT. I am start to smell a warning sign with FTMO based on their profit split and payout change. Something tells me that was a market share loss move that actually is negative not positive. I'll take the extra payout money but I think that rather than a "oh wow" it looks more like a crack in the wall. Reminds me of FT's 90% move a little too much now. Save us daniel savage.
If this was a case of Dominos and all the firms were bound to fall following FT, i guarantee you MFF goes down next, due to jurisdiction/proximity.
Many FT clients are now going to be split between FTMO and MFF.
  • #4,229
  • Sep 29, 2021 11:20am Sep 29, 2021 11:20am
Quoting Koop
{quote} If this was a case of Dominos and all the firms were bound to fall following FT, i guarantee you MFF goes down next, due to jurisdiction/proximity. Many FT clients are now going to be split between FTMO and MFF.

A little birdie tells me they are already hedged if this was a case of regulatory winds. (I just went and asked a whole bunch of questions to a power that be). The impression I got from MFF when i just spoke to them was that the website etc is struggling with all the new traffic which could cause them problems. They don't seem phased by the rest.

Haven't found anyone at FTMO to talk to yet ... working on it.
  • #4,230
  • Sep 29, 2021 11:23am Sep 29, 2021 11:23am
Quoting Nsak3y
I honestly think that the increased profit share at FTMO is not something that is a cause for concern. Maybe I will end up eating my words, but even firms like MFF have admitted that they started with investment capital in place, but quickly found that the company was able to easily operate on its own once they started growing. In other words, there were enough people paying for challenges to support the entire business model. Sine FTMO is so popular, it seems likely that they can afford to pay out 90% of profits for good traders while still managing...
if, like MFF, FTMO has some live accounts etc to copy trades or not, they really would have to cover only the margin requirment for the allowed MAX DD, so there should t be an issue with allocating capital etc imo. plus it s stated in their contracts as funded trader that the funds aren t real, dunno about MFF but i d assume it should be the same. moreover, it would be dumb to assume those contracts are just made inhouse rather then been actually legal binding. so i think they are pretty covered from FT fiasco, if anything FT screwed up by refusing and negotiating payouts. this is just my common sence, altho might be wrong as i ain t a lawyer, i m just assuming that to run a bussiness of this magnitude how dumb can u be and not look up legal advice and loopholes etc
  • #4,231
  • Sep 29, 2021 11:28am Sep 29, 2021 11:28am
i have not laughed like this in a while.
An educational game?

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  • #4,232
  • Sep 29, 2021 11:29am Sep 29, 2021 11:29am
Quoting Koop;
i guarantee you MFF goes down next, due to jurisdiction/proximity..
-I'm not so sure. Since they are not acting as the broker, then the same regulations and restrictions likely would not apply. They can simply use an offshore broker that does not operate within a jurisdiction where US regulatory compliance is an issue (for example).

It would be little different than someone setting up a business that is legally allowed to trade, and just hires independent contractors to provide them with signals. The business owner then chooses which signals that they want to push to market. The contractors that provide those signals are not actually trading for the company, and are only providing data, not even investment or trading advice...just data. As such, most of the legal requirements are probably circumvented.

The only difference between this and traditional signal services, is that the roles are reversed, and the signal provider is the one that is paying for the opportunity to participate. And instead of having to weed out all of the good signals from the bad, the company has set up a system that automates that process by way of challenges.
  • #4,233
  • Sep 29, 2021 11:29am Sep 29, 2021 11:29am
That's what happens when a wannabe Instagram influencer decides to get into an industry she knows f*** all about. Absolute, utter farce that many people here have been warning about for months. For what it's worth, Canada does not have a single securities regulator so if FT are feeling the heat it's coming from the local authorities in Nova Scotia which will have no bearing on Ontario-based MFF (for the time being at least).
  • #4,234
  • Sep 29, 2021 11:33am Sep 29, 2021 11:33am
Quoting EnoFX;
For what it's worth, Canada does not have a single securities regulator so if FT are feeling the heat it's coming from the local authorities in Nova Scotia which will have no bearing on Ontario-based MFF (for the time being at least).
-But if it is determined that FT are operating a ponzi, then that matter becomes a moot point, almost, presumably.

I cannot believe that they are actually admitting to this. Surely someone at their company realizes the magnitude of what they have admitted here?
  • #4,235
  • Sep 29, 2021 11:35am Sep 29, 2021 11:35am
Quoting Takisd
{quote} I don't think the industry is done. There are plenty of alternatives to FT. I am start to smell a warning sign with FTMO based on their profit split and payout change. Something tells me that was a market share loss move that actually is negative not positive. I'll take the extra payout money but I think that rather than a "oh wow" it looks more like a crack in the wall. Reminds me of FT's 90% move a little too much now. Save us daniel savage.
Yes, I think MFF and FTMO are fine as well. I am sure they have the ability to go to a different jurisdiction as well, if necessary. Seems like both companies have their act together enough to have a backup plan. Absolutely agree, FTMO must be losing market share, it's literally $300 more for a 200K account. I know it's refunded, but a lot of people don't view it that way, they just see the lower price.
  • #4,236
  • Sep 29, 2021 11:37am Sep 29, 2021 11:37am
Quoting Nsak3y
{quote}-But if it is determined that FT are operating a ponzi, then that matter becomes a moot point, almost, presumably. I cannot believe that they are actually admitting to this. Surely someone at their company realizes the magnitude of what they have admitted here?
the only ponzy i can think of is in FT s case as they started out without proper capital to back the bussiness, thinking since most of the traders lose, the should be fine and just pay the few traders that make it with the money made from the herd that busts challenges. then the shit hit the phan when they had to pay up large sums of cash they didn t had to traders that made it or just swinged for he fence and got lucky, regardless they are entitled to payouts. this doesn t seem to be the case with MFF thus far, and for sure it isn t with FTMO since they ve been paying out people without a single complaint to my knowledge atleast in years.
  • #4,237
  • Sep 29, 2021 11:39am Sep 29, 2021 11:39am
Mud everywhere... THe fact FT have ditched social media to me says this saga is no where near from over.

A sociopath to remove public image? What about the FT affiliates who were solicited to go shit on other people everywhere? Will we hear from them??

Other than initial capital, I don't see there being any major expense to this business if you know what you are doing and where to look..... To rug pull like this and turn yourself into a casino (which is heavily regulated in Canada BTW).... I dno what to say.

I think the audience is partially to blame too, we all expect magic from these firms, huge profit splits, huge leverage, less rules = better etc. It encourages this behavior and is part of the problem.
  • #4,238
  • Sep 29, 2021 11:39am Sep 29, 2021 11:39am
Quoting EnoFX
That's what happens when a wannabe Instagram influencer decides to get into an industry she knows f*** all about. Absolute, utter farce that many people here have been warning about for months. For what it's worth, Canada does not have a single securities regulator so if FT are feeling the heat it's coming from the local authorities in Nova Scotia which will have no bearing on Ontario-based MFF (for the time being at least).
I don't even think it's a regulatory issue. If it were they wouldn't have had to drop profit splits from 90% to 25% and Leverage from 1:100 to 1:25. They could have just changed the wording of their program offer like theyve just done.

They obviously have money problems and i'm not surprised considering the kind of top level management they have.
  • #4,239
  • Sep 29, 2021 11:48am Sep 29, 2021 11:48am
Quoting 1odi;
this doesn t seem to be the case with MFF thus far, and for sure it isn t with FTMO since they ve been paying out people without a single complaint to my knowledge atleast in years.
-Well, any firm that is actually pushing trades to market, should always be able to pay contractors their cut. The only exception to this would be if the company is only pushing the best 'signals' to market in lieu of all signals.

Another thing to keep in mind, is that if a prop firm is actually pushing trades to market, then there is nothing to stop them from piggy-backing on the best signals and making massive profits on top of what you make, that never get disclosed to you or to the public. So the 90/10 split becomes even more negligible in that case.
  • #4,240
  • Sep 29, 2021 11:53am Sep 29, 2021 11:53am
Quoting Takisd
{quote} A little birdie tells me they are already hedged if this was a case of regulatory winds. (I just went and asked a whole bunch of questions to a power that be). The impression I got from MFF when i just spoke to them was that the website etc is struggling with all the new traffic which could cause them problems. They don't seem phased by the rest. Haven't found anyone at FTMO to talk to yet ... working on it.
Yes and you were the little birdie that told me a while back as well. I just didn't know if it was on the DL, so didn't want to post it.
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