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  • #3,761
  • Sep 12, 2021 5:36pm Sep 12, 2021 5:36pm
Was looking for my investor password in the mailbox terminal on Fxchoice for my DT4X account and noticed that there is no registration showing for the new prop account? Am I missing something? The last account showing was one of my demos from March. Hmmmmm.
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Pride always comes before destruction.... -Proverbs 16:18
  • #3,762
  • Sep 12, 2021 6:02pm Sep 12, 2021 6:02pm
Quoting 808
{quote} He was referencing that 99% of the prop traders blow out in 3 months or less, not a 99% gain on accounts in 3 months.
Yes, just reread it. My bad. Too many beers watching the NFL.
  • #3,763
  • Sep 12, 2021 6:23pm Sep 12, 2021 6:23pm
Quoting Expo33
Was looking for my investor password in the mailbox terminal on Fxchoice for my DT4X account and noticed that there is no registration showing for the new prop account? Am I missing something? The last account showing was one of my demos from March. Hmmmmm. {image}
If they are using a 3rd party service for the dashboard they have to login before you do.. this could be why.
  • #3,764
  • Sep 12, 2021 7:07pm Sep 12, 2021 7:07pm
Quoting Takisd
{quote} If they are using a 3rd party service for the dashboard they have to login before you do.. this could be why.
Thanks, Takisd.

I also noticed their "account insights" page doesn't show my test trades as it's under maintenance. DT4Xtrader will be #1 very soon
Pride always comes before destruction.... -Proverbs 16:18
  • #3,765
  • Sep 13, 2021 4:02am Sep 13, 2021 4:02am
Quoting Koop
{quote} Lol yeah, i see where you're coming from... but this is the problem- A $180k account with 5% max DD has $9000 wiggle room. If you started your personal account with the same $1000 you paid for the $20k accelerated and used exactly the same risk and strategy you would have used on the Accelerated to get your account to the 180k stage, then you would have the same $9000 or more in your Personal account at that stage and would have been keeping 100% percent of your profits.
Dear friend are you going to open a $1000 and increase the balance to $9000 in a couple of months? Wow, if you take a look at some old binned threads in the Trading Journals forum with titles like "$1000 to $100000" and "$100 to a million" - all of them blown!

Unfortunately the truth is that trying to even double a 1k account is incredibly difficult. A 10% increase per month is feasible and with max leverage now in the EU and USA at 1:3 it's about all one can hope for.

Even if you do manage to do the impossible and double the account in a couple of weeks you only just getting back your 1k investment

It's much easier (in my view) to increase a 20k account by 10% utilising careful trading and 1:50 leverage but the proof will be in the pudding I suppose!
  • #3,766
  • Sep 13, 2021 5:27am Sep 13, 2021 5:27am
Quoting Mtinifx
{quote} Dear friend are you going to open a $1000 and increase the balance to $9000 in a couple of months? Wow, if you take a look at some old binned threads in the Trading Journals forum with titles like "$1000 to $100000" and "$100 to a million" - all of them blown! Unfortunately the truth is that trying to even double a 1k account is incredibly difficult. A 10% increase per month is feasible and with max leverage now in the EU and USA at 1:3 it's about all one can hope for. Even if you do manage to do the impossible and double the account in...
Your risk of ruin is still $1,000, whether you trade your own personal account or a 20k account with 5% DD. It's simple math here. You will need to trade the same size positions, if your risk of ruin is 20 trades is $50 per trade ON BOTH ACCOUNTS. Therefore everytime you increase your account by $2,000 you will have increased your personal account by $2,000 as well. On a side note, leverage in the USA is 50:1.
Or, if you want to look at it based on your numbers, the time it takes you to make that $9,000 in the personal account is going to take the same amount of time on a 20K account with a 5% DD limit.
  • #3,767
  • Edited 6:03am Sep 13, 2021 5:49am | Edited 6:03am
Quoting Mtinifx
{quote} Dear friend are you going to open a $1000 and increase the balance to $9000 in a couple of months? Wow, if you take a look at some old binned threads in the Trading Journals forum with titles like "$1000 to $100000" and "$100 to a million" - all of them blown! Unfortunately the truth is that trying to even double a 1k account is incredibly difficult. A 10% increase per month is feasible and with max leverage now in the EU and USA at 1:3 it's about all one can hope for. Even if you do manage to do the impossible and double the account in...
Thats the point i'm trying to make..
It's much easier to make 1k from 20k..... but if you only have $1k of max DD in that account is it really still a $20k account?

In terms of risk and margin, the only real difference between a $1000 (1:500) personal account (No DD llimit) and a $20,000 (1:50} MFF accelerated (5% Max DD) is the extra 500k buying power that MFF gives.
And if a trader is smart enough to split that $1000 into two personal accounts, that's two $500 personal account at 1:500 each, which gives you a combined leverage of 1:1000 on that personal account.... thereby eliminating the only advantage the MFF accelerated had.

If you lose 1k on the personal account.... you have lost the account.
If you lose 1k on the 20k accelerated, you have lost the account.

This means that to manage risk appropriately, one would have to trade both accounts using the same risk management.(Lol wait, what?)

When looking at the scaling table, it would be more prudent to look at the growth of the Max DD as the account progresses (Not the account balance).... Then you'll understand how it's just plain ol mis-directional marketing.

Take a look at Endgame's table of comparison again, you'll see.
  • #3,768
  • Sep 13, 2021 5:59am Sep 13, 2021 5:59am
Quoting Expo33
{quote} Thanks, Takisd. I also noticed their "account insights" page doesn't show my test trades as it's under maintenance. DT4Xtrader will be #1 very soon
Mtinifx - Hello, please tell me where I can find additional information about - DT4Xtrader. Maybe somewhere else they are discussing this company? They have good conditions. Good luck.
  • #3,769
  • Sep 13, 2021 6:14am Sep 13, 2021 6:14am
Good day Traders

MFF accelerator account has no value for traders.......It was just a hype.
Why would you pay someone to trade your money and share profit 50/50

I did some calculation on their 50K account

You pay $4900 and they only contribute $100 and you get 50K

Let say you hit their 20% target and they double your account to 100K

That simply mean you made 10K profit and shared 50% of it with MFF which is $5000

That is the 5K they add to your account to move to 100K.....then your risk is 10K on 100K account

Do you see you are trading with them to create your own risk?

Every time you double an account after profit split they add it your risk parameters
  • #3,770
  • Sep 13, 2021 6:36am Sep 13, 2021 6:36am
Quoting Phronesis24
Good day Traders MFF accelerator account has no value for traders.......It was just a hype. Why would you pay someone to trade your money and share profit 50/50 I did some calculation on their 50K account You pay $4900 and they only contribute $100 and you get 50K Let say you hit their 20% target and they double your account to 100K That simply mean you made 10K profit and shared 50% of it with MFF which is $5000 That is the 5K they add to your account to move to 100K.....then your risk is 10K on 100K account Do you see you are trading with them...
Although I agree with all of your points on the accelerated model, as I have never been a fan of these type of models, I am having a great experience with MFF and consider them my #1 now, with FTMO #2. They have by far the best eval model with 24K in DD for $949. If you can get in while they run one of the 10% off promos, it's only $855! Just received my 3rd payout, conditions are great, support is awesome, 85% payout from 3rd month on.

If you can pas that first month, which MFF will give free retry if you are in any kind of profit OR extend you another 30 days, provided you trade responsibly and are not a gambler type trader.......the eval models are far superior.
  • #3,771
  • Sep 13, 2021 6:41am Sep 13, 2021 6:41am
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} Although I agree with all of your points on the accelerated model, as I have never been a fan of these type of models, I am having a great experience with MFF and consider them my #1 now, with FTMO #2. They have by far the best eval model with 24K in DD for $949. If you can get in while they run one of the 10% off promos, it's only $855! Just received my 3rd payout, conditions are great, support is awesome, 85% payout from 3rd month on. If you can pas that first month, which MFF will give free retry if you are in any kind of profit OR extend...
Their evaluation accounts are by far the best.....100% in agreement
They are priced right
85% profit share is over the top
  • #3,772
  • Sep 13, 2021 6:50am Sep 13, 2021 6:50am
This is the equivalent of going into Mcdonalds and saying "eww yuck a filet of fish, its completely useless to a customer". Some cats have stripes some have spots..... People want certain things, a lot of people in trading want instant payments and instant gratification, accelerated/direct funding models cover that. I doubt there is any good trader using the accelerated or direct funding program anywhere. 5ers entire model is this model and yet they are still probably #4 in traffic and their conditions are absolute ass.

Sometimes we just have to accept that not all of us are the same, some like rump, some like bump.
  • #3,773
  • Edited 10:50am Sep 13, 2021 9:50am | Edited 10:50am
Quoting JustAVisit
{quote} Thanks for sharing, 99% last 3 months. Do you think its psychological sabotage or inexperience? Generally a trader with say 10 years experience and solid plan, shouldn't be destroying a prop account in 3 months. So it is all new folks passing challenges and trying their luck?
A lot of people get hyped up by social media, they see the highlighted massive payout interviews on youtube and they jump in without a plan and no risk management strategy.

The challenge model also encourages over risking because gaining 8%-10% in a month under the draw down restrictions is not very common. Some also get lucky and pass when the market is extremely favorable to their system and then the market environment changes & it completely fails... Quite a few BTC & Gold traders that passed on the covid bull runs washed out quickly.

I can understand over risking slightly in phase 1, especially once 3-4% profit is locked in to play with...

Once live... YOU WON!

Dial the risk down so you keep the account long term, your systems historical max drawdown should fit into <6% @ FTMO or <8% @ MFF, which will give you an extra 4% buffer.
  • #3,774
  • Sep 13, 2021 10:38am Sep 13, 2021 10:38am
Quoting CableJ
{quote} A lot of people get hyped up but social media, they see the highlighted massive payout interviews on youtube and they jump in without a plan and no risk management strategy. The challenge model also encourages over risking because gaining 8% to 10% in a month under the draw down restrictions is not very common. Some also get lucky and pass when the market is extremely favorable to their system and then the market environment changes & it completely fails... Quite a few BTC & Gold traders that passed on the covid bull runs washed out quickly....
You are dead on, I do step out of my risk tolerance to pass, but once you have the account, only goal is DON'T LOSE IT, no time pressure, no profit target pressure. It's fairly easy to grind out 1, even 1.5% per week without DD really even exceeding 3-4%. My strategy in the beginning of my paycycle is to cut the losers REAL quick, stop loss may be 0.5%, but I may cut it at 0.2%. Profitable trades get stop to BE and try to get a runner that you can add to. You do miss out on some trades that would've been winners, but I just feel the money management is so much more important. Don't get into DD early in the cycle and the pressure is way less. Once up 2-3%, you can resume a more normal flow.
  • #3,775
  • Sep 13, 2021 2:24pm Sep 13, 2021 2:24pm
Quoting Profit-men
{quote} Mtinifx - Hello, please tell me where I can find additional information about - DT4Xtrader. Maybe somewhere else they are discussing this company? They have good conditions. Good luck.
Sorry don't know anything about them. Looked at their webpage and notice that they don't allow trading indices and only offer 10:1 leverage.

Give them a miss IMHO
  • #3,776
  • Sep 13, 2021 2:27pm Sep 13, 2021 2:27pm
Quoting Mtinifx
{quote} Sorry don't know anything about them. Looked at their webpage and notice that they don't allow trading indices and only offer 10:1 leverage. Give them a miss IMHO
Last year when I enquired about them they had relative drawdown, upto a point where live chat told me they consider unrealized profit for drawdown calculation which is a huge bummer.
  • #3,777
  • Sep 13, 2021 2:47pm Sep 13, 2021 2:47pm
Quoting Koop
{quote} Thats the point i'm trying to make.. It's much easier to make 1k from 20k..... but if you only have $1k of max DD in that account is it really still a $20k account? In terms of risk and margin, the only real difference between a $1000 (1:500) personal account (No DD llimit) and a $20,000 (1:50} MFF accelerated (5% Max DD) is the extra 500k buying power that MFF gives. And if a trader is smart enough to split that $1000 into two personal accounts, that's two $500 personal account at 1:500 each, which gives you a combined leverage of 1:1000...

Mmmm OK! Well thanks so much for the long explanation and I do understand what you're saying however in practice trying to double a $1000 account or two $500 accounts (if you like) using high leverage is a recipe for disaster. I should know! Goodness knows I have tried it so many times!

The point is of course that it's so much easier to trade a $20k account then to trade a $500 account. I only have to make a 10% gain with 50:1 whereas you have to make 100% using 500:1 to get to the same level. That is the whole point of paying for a Prop Trading account.

Most people are not interested in the Accelerated because the Evaluation model is of course much more lucrative. 85% of the profits compared to only 50% of the profits. The problem is - how many traders are still around after 3 months? Very few indeed. That is the problem because people are over-trading trying to reach that target. And Phase 2 is just as difficult as Phase 1. Plenty people fail Phase 2 as we all know!

But of course IF one can stay in the game with the accelerated (there are no time limits and no immediate target) and get to $1,000,000 with the scaling, your 50% profit wont look so bad
  • #3,778
  • Sep 13, 2021 3:08pm Sep 13, 2021 3:08pm
Quoting Mtinifx
{quote} Mmmm OK! Well thanks so much for the long explanation and I do understand what you're saying however in practice trying to double a $1000 account or two $500 accounts (if you like) using high leverage is a recipe for disaster. I should know! Goodness knows I have tried it so many times! The point is of course that it's so much easier to trade a $20k account then to trade a $500 account. I only have to make a 10% gain with 50:1 whereas you have to make 100% using 500:1 to get to the same level. That is the whole point...
You are missing the point completely. The balance doesn't matter. If you have a $1,000 personal account or a 20K account with 5% DD, you need to trade the exact same size positions in both. Therefore, your profits and losses will be exactly the same. In personal account, you keep all the profit, therefore it will actual SCALE much quicker than any scaling model prop firm. Once again if your risk of ruin is 20 trades, which is 5% per trade, on the personal account you risk $50 per trade, if you do 5% on the 20K account, it's 1K, 1 loss YOU ARE DONE. Whatever your risk per trade on your personal account, it needs to be applied to the DRAWDOWN ALLOWED ONLY on the prop account.

I guess takisd said it best, despite the huge mathematical advantages of eval/challenges and the fact that probably 0 profitable traders using this model, some folks still prefer the filet o fish over the Big Mac.
  • #3,779
  • Sep 13, 2021 3:09pm Sep 13, 2021 3:09pm
Quoting Mtinifx
{quote} Mmmm OK! Well thanks so much for the long explanation and I do understand what you're saying however in practice trying to double a $1000 account or two $500 accounts (if you like) using high leverage is a recipe for disaster. I should know! Goodness knows I have tried it so many times! The point is of course that it's so much easier to trade a $20k account then to trade a $500 account. I only have to make a 10% gain with 50:1 whereas you have to make 100% using 500:1 to get to the same level. That is the whole point...

A lot of you guys are not reading the account benefits in full. You do NOT have to make 10% to get paid. You only need to make 5%.

So let's say you get a $20k account, that means you have to make $1000 profit. Is that so difficult with careful trading??

OK so the next week you do another 5% which means you've made 10% altogether. You have made $1000 profit. Your account goes up to $40k and you have got your intitial stake back. The next week you do 5% and you receive $1000 profit and the next week the same. That's $2000 in two weeks right?

Not too bad??

BUT you're not finished. Your account is now $60k. You do 5% and you get $1500 and the same the next week. Another $1500. That's $3000 in 2 weeks.

NOW your account stands at $120000 - you do 5% and now you're on $3000 a week. Shall I go on?
  • #3,780
  • Sep 13, 2021 3:15pm Sep 13, 2021 3:15pm
Quoting Mtinifx
{quote} A lot of you guys are not reading the account benefits in full. You do NOT have to make 10% to get paid. You only need to make 5%. So let's say you get a $20k account, that means you have to make $1000 profit. Is that so difficult with careful trading?? OK so the next week you do another 5% which means you've made 10% altogether. You have made $1000 profit. Your account goes up to $40k and you have got your intitial stake back. The next week you do 5% and you receive $1000 profit and the next week the same. That's $2000 in two weeks right?...
You have to make $1,000 trading lot sizes as if you only have $1,000, forget the 20K for a sec. It's 100% gain, just like it would be in the personal account. To make 5% with 1,000 DD max, what are you going to risk per trade? If you have 1,000 in a personal account with 100% DD allowed, what size are you going to trade? Those sizes should be exactly the same
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