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  • #721
  • Apr 29, 2021 11:22am Apr 29, 2021 11:22am
A 1:100 leverage with 5% daily drawdown may be useless for most of you. That 5% is less than 5 pips in many forex symbols.

12% profit in 60 days with 4% drawdown still to be proved in a consistent way by any serious trader. The5ers agressive plan is bad and only there exist one that is even worse: the FTMO challenge + verification.

Many are looking for shortcuts. The months, even years pass and they are still in a rush for get-rich-quick from their start line.

The5ers low risk plan is the most reliable from my point of view. Still you have to fight during the first trading days with a close stop out level. And that on each stage. So clearly, it is a program for low risk trades and consistent profits, at least during the first trades of each stage.
Always ready to help
  • #722
  • Apr 29, 2021 11:27am Apr 29, 2021 11:27am
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} But if they do that, they would actually have something at risk. The way the model is now, as you know, fee you pay is greater than amount you can lose. There is no benefit to the trader vs. putting the fee in a personal account. As their model stands now, they are simply allowing you to fund your own account without any risk to them whatsoever. Then they take 50% for allowing you such privilege. Shocks me, that Paul, of all people would think this is a good model.
Well, that's the idea! The only one that makes sense can be replicated at home.
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  • #723
  • Apr 29, 2021 11:31am Apr 29, 2021 11:31am
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} But if they do that, they would actually have something at risk. The way the model is now, as you know, fee you pay is greater than amount you can lose. There is no benefit to the trader vs. putting the fee in a personal account. As their model stands now, they are simply allowing you to fund your own account without any risk to them whatsoever. Then they take 50% for allowing you such privilege. Shocks me, that Paul, of all people would think this is a good model.
We understate the spectacular power of crafty marketing.
People see "6 months to reach profit target + up to 2 million scale up plan" and lose their minds. Most don't make it past the first week or 2 because of how tight the DD is. Some do but have to trade micro lots to avoid breaching the 4% max if they have a few bad days.

I honestly do not see ANY benefits trading under such conditions. To be honest, I think the funding talent and MYFF rapid model is even better off, with the 10% biweekly bonus and consistency rules.

Max Respect to anyone who can successfully trade with the 5ers and earn good money
  • #724
  • Apr 29, 2021 11:44am Apr 29, 2021 11:44am
Quoting PaulMF
{quote} Well, that's the idea! The only one that makes sense can be replicated at home.
Why then do you need them if it can be replicated at home?

$20000 5ers account at 1:6 leverage = $120,000 in buying power. I get stopped out if I lose $800 at any time and I have to give a away 50% of my gains if Im profitable.

Personal broker account - $1000 at 1:200 leverage = $200,000 in buying power or trading margin.
I could lose all of it if I feel rich and I also get to keep 100% of my profits.

Explain why I need the 5ers in this case.
  • #725
  • Apr 29, 2021 11:46am Apr 29, 2021 11:46am
Quoting PaulMF
{quote} Well, that's the idea! The only one that makes sense can be replicated at home.
But why give up 50% for something I can simply do on my own? Actually, I can trade slightly larger sizes by putting the "fee" in a personal account.
  • #726
  • Apr 29, 2021 11:57am Apr 29, 2021 11:57am
4% fix stop out level is way better than 5% daily drawdown.

5% relative daily drawdown with a target of 10% in 30 days limit is a big no-no. One just have to look at those ff members that have failed to reach some profit split after several attempts.
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  • #727
  • Apr 29, 2021 12:10pm Apr 29, 2021 12:10pm
Quoting PaulMF
4% fix stop out level is way better than 5% daily drawdown. 5% relative daily drawdown with a target of 10% in 30 days limit is a big no-no. One just have to look at those ff members that have failed to reach some profit split after several attempts.
The 5% daily drawdown is not a relative DD. If start the day at $10000 and your max daily is $500 and stop out level for the day is $9500... Say you make $300 profit, your daily loss limit increases to $800, meaning that for that day you now have a Daily loss limit of 8% and stop out level remains at $9500. It's not a trailing Drawdown.
You would need to lose 8% that day to breach the Daily loss limit.
  • #728
  • Apr 29, 2021 12:16pm Apr 29, 2021 12:16pm
FTMO daily drawdown is relative. From the starting balance of each day. Even affects to those already open positions.
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  • #729
  • Apr 29, 2021 12:18pm Apr 29, 2021 12:18pm
Quoting Rmg
6% in 6months!!! it takes 6months to realise what a waste of time. Aim higher.. {image}
Amazing growth! Can you share the myfxbook link?
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  • #730
  • Apr 29, 2021 12:22pm Apr 29, 2021 12:22pm
Quoting PaulMF
{quote} Amazing growth! Can you share the myfxbook link?
Demo profits, aimed at aggressive model of ftmo. Most of the trades screenshots shared in my journal thread.
on a postive roll...
  • #731
  • Apr 29, 2021 12:25pm Apr 29, 2021 12:25pm
Quoting PaulMF
FTMO daily drawdown is relative. From the starting balance of each day. Even affects to those already open positions.
I'm not sure if you understand it as you haven't even taken a trial. May be you could use my example of $10,000 so I could understand your perspective better.

As I know it, the Daily loss limit is fixed. Your starting balance at the day must never go below 5%, same as equity.
  • #732
  • Apr 29, 2021 12:26pm Apr 29, 2021 12:26pm
Demo...

I can run hundreds of demo accounts with agressive EAs all at the same time and only share those accounts that better performed in the last months.

Hope you will replicate those results in a real account. Good luck
Always ready to help
  • #733
  • Apr 29, 2021 12:32pm Apr 29, 2021 12:32pm
Quoting Koop
{quote} I'm not sure if you understand it as you haven't even taken a trial. May be you could use my example of $10,000 so I could understand your perspective better. As I know it, the Daily loss limit is fixed. Your starting balance at the day must never go below 5%, same as equity.
Step 1:
You have 2 accounts on The5ers and FTMO at the same time. Both with $10,000.

Step 2:
After several days you reach a balance of $15,000 in both accounts: FTMO and The5ers.

Step 3:
New trading day. The maximum possible loss allowed in both cases:
- FTMO: $500 (relative to prior day balance)
- The5ers: $5,400 (fix at stop out level of $9,600)

4% at stop out level is way better than 5% relative daily drawdown.

The5ers win.
Always ready to help
  • #734
  • Apr 29, 2021 12:55pm Apr 29, 2021 12:55pm
Quoting PaulMF
{quote} Step 1: You have 2 accounts on The5ers and FTMO at the same time. Both with $10,000. Step 2: After several days you reach a balance of $15,000 in both accounts: FTMO and The5ers. Step 3: New trading day. The maximum possible loss allowed in both cases: - FTMO: $500 (relative to prior day balance) - The5ers: $5,400 (fix at stop out level of $9,600) 4% at stop out level is way better than 5% relative daily drawdown. The5ers win.
Except for the fact I can put their fee in a personal account and have more $$$ by stage 3 than their "scaling" plan and not have to give up 50%.

FTMO----10,000 DD for $640
5%ers--- $800 DD for $875
hmmmm..... can't decide
  • #735
  • Apr 29, 2021 1:05pm Apr 29, 2021 1:05pm
FTMO: $640 to participate in a challenge to get 10% in a month and a verification of two months to get 5%.

After that, extremely difficult to pass, you may get $5,000 relative daily drawdown.
Always ready to help
  • #736
  • Apr 29, 2021 1:12pm Apr 29, 2021 1:12pm
Quoting PaulMF
FTMO: $640 to participate in a challenge to get 10% in a month and a verification of two months to get 5%. After that, extremely difficult to pass, you may get $5,000 relative daily drawdown.
There is no target once you get funded. You can make as you wish.
on a postive roll...
  • #737
  • Apr 29, 2021 1:12pm Apr 29, 2021 1:12pm
The problem with 5ers is the leverage of 1:3. OK I understand it's suppose to help manage risk but come on! If it was 1:10 or 1:50, it would make them a bit more attractive and give traders a chance to build the account in a reasonable period of time and still manage risk. Anyway, that's my view.
  • #738
  • Apr 29, 2021 1:14pm Apr 29, 2021 1:14pm
Quoting Mtinifx
The problem with 5ers is the leverage of 1:3. OK I understand it's suppose to help manage risk but come on! If it was 1:10 or 1:50, it would make them a bit more attractive and give traders a chance to build the account in a reasonable period of time and still manage risk. Anyway, that's my view.
1:6 and 1:30
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  • #739
  • Apr 29, 2021 1:18pm Apr 29, 2021 1:18pm
Has anyone tried some real prop firms like Optiver and Hudson River Trading?

Some insight about the recruiting process and types of strategies would be of great interest here. Are they only using market-making strategies? Or someone has heard of different types of strategies?
Always ready to help
  • #740
  • Apr 29, 2021 1:19pm Apr 29, 2021 1:19pm
Quoting PaulMF
{quote} Step 1: You have 2 accounts on The5ers and FTMO at the same time. Both with $10,000. Step 2: After several days you reach a balance of $15,000 in both accounts: FTMO and The5ers. Step 3: New trading day. The maximum possible loss allowed in both cases: - FTMO: $500 (relative to prior day balance) - The5ers: $5,400 (fix at stop out level of $9,600) 4% at stop out level is way better than 5% relative daily drawdown. The5ers win.
Wrong.

Step 3 - Max possible loss allowed -
FTMO - $6000
5ers - $5400

Max possible loss allowed in a Day -
FTMO - $500.

Two totally different things.

To think about it, apparently the only ones who actually care about the trader protecting the profits they've made so far are the ones who impose daily loss limits.

Imagine letting trader make you money, but also giving them a leeway to blow away all the profits of the previous day in a single day. No caps, no limits.
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