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  • #701
  • Apr 28, 2021 11:59pm Apr 28, 2021 11:59pm
Let's keep the thread on track please guys and girls.

No more bickering.

Masterrmind .........
Master your Mind then Master your Trades
  • #702
  • Apr 29, 2021 12:48am Apr 29, 2021 12:48am
Quoting PaulMF
{quote} He doesn't know anything about you and any other. Probably, he doesn't also know anything about himself. He is rude. Not to mention those obscene posts that sometimes, I have to read from his side. And the way he approaches every post also reveals their lack of skills and knowledge. He is pure fantasy. Spot Forex historical data is also possible. And having only 12 months of it, clearly reveals the lack of resources to support a team of serious traders. And there is no need for "hundreds of thousands of dollars". No worries FX-DON. It is...
I'm not here to bash anyone or FTMO just to share valid shortcomings. You take the firm for what it is, an opportunity to reduce some of your own risk, less exposure of own capital or gain access to increase capital. No one should be naive as to how many failed challenges there will be and their fees undoubtedly part of the business model and maybe some private investors too. I know some have concerns about still being on demo beyond the passing the challenge but seriously who cares ? I wish I could be on demo all the time and get paid. The failure rate in the markets is high as we all know and therefore logical to assume statistically speaking that rate will be evident within the FTMO challengers.
All that aside even if you are a trader who is sporadically profitable and with small amount of capital, it is a good opportunity for you to try and pass and at least have a few months payouts for trading demo. It's a no brainer in my view and far less demoralising than trading undercapitalised 0.1 etc micro lots, fake capital or not. The monthly payout is in real cash, remember that. I think the regulators will find a way soon to curb some of the these firms but for now for a relatively low entry fee it's time to make hay while the sun shines. So Paul thanks for support but don't waste time with futile arguments here, time is one of your most valuable of commodities, don't waste it on ignorant people, share valid information about these companies with the trading community as you find it and move on. Best of luck in your endeavours.

@fxmastermind, I did thank you for your reply but FF have deleted my post to you twice.
  • #703
  • Apr 29, 2021 1:25am Apr 29, 2021 1:25am
Quoting mtako
{quote} I also have been scalping for a long time and yes for me too historical data is useful. I use it in many ways, but mainly for adaptation, to optimize my params every so months, or to work on newer strategies that need a bit more forward testing(need the history for that also !) for confirmation, or that had perhaps mediocre results in the past but that have been getting better.... yes I need some of the older data to track some of that also... Main point is, I myself understand. BUT, and I dont know your full situation so dont get me wrong,...
Hi yes the problem was overcome quickly, thank you. I don't think FTMO is toxic but it is important to have all the details and information presented for the consumer to decide. This is the obvious objective of this thread I assume, to share information that is perhaps not so widely known about one company or another. I think for the most part the business models of these firms haven't changed much over the years but more recently I would suggest some offerings are better than ever. Their model definitely exploits market statistics that most people fail but what is wrong with that ? It is no different to the many brokers out there. If you can trade all their shortcomings can be surmounted. For those that can't trade deal with that obstacle first as a priority or you quickly become part of the statistics these companies thrive on.
I would recommend that rather than spend time potentially bashing these companies (not aimed at you, in general) (granted some will undoubtedly be diabolical) look at ways to exploit their offerings and offer them suggestions for conditions to be more favourable for the traders but don't lose sight of the fact that it is a business without sentiment and the whole model is about making money as with every other business. I realise for some 10% target in the allotted time is a tall order so best to spend your time on how best to be able to accomplish that or write to the firm and suggest why you think the target should be lowered. That is a clear example of how to be constructive about these firms. I can see here there are guys that just want to be negative about everything, that is frustration at their own shortcomings. Deal with what you have control of. For the most part you can't control the business of operations of the likes of FTMO, you can make suggestions to them but what you can control is your own approach to finding a way to work within the framework these companies offer. If you think they are useless and scoundrels just move on and concentrate on your own space, far more productive for the individual IMO.

I have replied to Paul and Mtako but my response was not necessarily directed at them, just my general thoughts.

Good day to you all.
  • #704
  • Apr 29, 2021 1:35am Apr 29, 2021 1:35am
Quoting bigiivan
FTMO {image}
This is what I tried to get into skulls .
Note... This guy passed. Good. Well done.
But... He almost blew it. Came ever so close to hitting the Daily DD allowance. & Yet. Didn't even get to 50% of the total loss allowance.
Without the daily loss rule he would have passed with flying colors, not even using 1/2 his allowable loss.
When you figger this out you may come close to understanding the Daily DD rule is just another trick to trip you up.
Attached Image
Look Left Trade Right
  • #705
  • Apr 29, 2021 1:46am Apr 29, 2021 1:46am
Quoting Basill
{quote} This is what I tried to get into skulls . Note... This guy passed. Good. Well done. But... He almost blew it. Came ever so close to hitting the Daily DD allowance. & Yet. Didn't even get to 50% of the total loss allowance. Without the daily loss rule he would have passed with flying colors, not even using 1/2 his allowable loss. When you figger this out you may come close to understanding the Daily DD rule is just another trick to trip you up.{image}
Some may refer to it as a trick and perhaps rightly so but I view it as a trading objective only meaning I understand what it means and I attempt to abide by it.

Check out the guy who made over 100k profit on a 300k account via FTMO, insanely close to losing the funded account because of the Max Daily Loss I believe.

Masterrmind ........
Master your Mind then Master your Trades
  • #706
  • Apr 29, 2021 1:55am Apr 29, 2021 1:55am
Quoting Masterrmind
{quote} Some may refer to it as a trick and perhaps rightly so but I view it as a trading objective only meaning I understand what it means and I attempt to abide by it. Check out the guy who made over 100k profit on a 300k account via FTMO, insanely close to losing the funded account. Masterrmind ........
Yes. You understand it, but there are many wannabee traders that do not. I feel it's only right someone is prepared to give a heads up to those still learning
to negotiate the murky waters of :Funded Trader" accounts/Challenges.
Look Left Trade Right
  • #707
  • Apr 29, 2021 2:11am Apr 29, 2021 2:11am
Here's another heads up.
Relative DD v Fixed DD

What does relative drawdown mean?
The difference between the highest account balance at the time compared to the lowest unrealized equity value.‎

The losses can never exceed the value of the Maximum Relative Drawdown specified at the start of the Evaluation.

For example, If the starting account balance was $10,000 the max relative Drawdown is $400. The stop-out level based on the Relative Drawdown would be $9.600

If the starting account balance was $10,000, and at a later time, the trader made a profit of $200, bringing the account balance to $10,200. Then the stop-out level based on the Relative Drawdown would be $10,200 – $400 = $9,800.

With a Fixed DD/Loss allowance. Starting balance $10,000. Loss allowed $400. Stop out at $9.600 not matter how high the account balance.

Hope this is helpful to some.
Look Left Trade Right
  • #708
  • Apr 29, 2021 2:38am Apr 29, 2021 2:38am
Quoting Basill
{quote} This is what I tried to get into skulls . Note... This guy passed. Good. Well done. But... He almost blew it. Came ever so close to hitting the Daily DD allowance. & Yet. Didn't even get to 50% of the total loss allowance. Without the daily loss rule he would have passed with flying colors, not even using 1/2 his allowable loss. When you figger this out you may come close to understanding the Daily DD rule is just another trick to trip you up.{image}
FTMO has an indicator which alerts you when your equity comes close to max DD. So I don’t think that it is a trick to trip you up.
Attached Image
  • #709
  • Apr 29, 2021 2:48am Apr 29, 2021 2:48am
Quoting Masterrmind
Let's keep the thread on track please guys and girls. No more bickering. Masterrmind .........
yes mastermind. With the rise of this type of companies, we really need to keep this thread active. as it is the only thread that represents us dealing with such programs. Let us all unite here, sharing our experiences, to protect ourselves and expose serious companies from fraud.
  • #710
  • Apr 29, 2021 2:52am Apr 29, 2021 2:52am
Being alerted does not remove the "trick".

Another possible "trick":

Source FTMO:
Be careful as the Maximum Daily Loss resets at midnight CE(S)T! Let’s say that one day you had a profit of €600. On the same day, you have an open position with a currently floating loss of €2500. On this day, the maximum daily loss is not violated. The current daily loss is €1900. (€600 closed profit – €2500 open position). However, if you hold this position with the open loss of €2500 after midnight, the daily loss limit will be violated. This is because your previous day profit doesn’t count to a new day and the open loss of €2500 exceeds the max daily permitted loss of €2000.
Always ready to help
  • #711
  • Apr 29, 2021 3:01am Apr 29, 2021 3:01am
Experience is the best teacher. The importance of DLL will be engraved in brain.
on a postive roll...
  • #712
  • Apr 29, 2021 5:04am Apr 29, 2021 5:04am
Quoting Feelas
{quote} yes mastermind. With the rise of this type of companies, we really need to keep this thread active. as it is the only thread that represents us dealing with such programs. Let us all unite here, sharing our experiences, to protect ourselves and expose serious companies from fraud.
Great post !

Masterrmind ........
Master your Mind then Master your Trades
  • #713
  • Apr 29, 2021 5:08am Apr 29, 2021 5:08am
Quoting PaulMF
Being alerted does not remove the "trick". Another possible "trick": Source FTMO: Be careful as the Maximum Daily Loss resets at midnight CE(S)T! Let’s say that one day you had a profit of €600. On the same day, you have an open position with a currently floating loss of €2500. On this day, the maximum daily loss is not violated. The current daily loss is €1900. (€600 closed profit – €2500 open position). However, if you hold this position with the open loss of €2500 after midnight, the daily loss limit will be violated. This is because your previous...
Yes traders taking on the challenge absolutely need to be aware of and understand how the CET timezone impacts on the trading objectives ... many have been caught out.

Masterrmind .........
Master your Mind then Master your Trades
  • #714
  • Apr 29, 2021 6:38am Apr 29, 2021 6:38am
Quoting PaulMF
Being alerted does not remove the "trick". Another possible "trick": Source FTMO: Be careful as the Maximum Daily Loss resets at midnight CE(S)T! Let’s say that one day you had a profit of €600. On the same day, you have an open position with a currently floating loss of €2500. On this day, the maximum daily loss is not violated. The current daily loss is €1900. (€600 closed profit – €2500 open position). However, if you hold this position with the open loss of €2500 after midnight, the daily loss limit will be violated. This is because your previous...
How is that any sort of trick? Allowed Daily loss for a day is 2500. If you closed a trade for 600 profit in a day, your daily limit for that day increases to 3100. If you put on new trades that amount to a floating loss of 2500 on that same day, you're safe since you have an extra buffer of $600.
However, if you carry over a loss of 2500 into the next day, a day in which you haven't created any buffer with any newly gained profits, then you have clearly violated the daily DD rule.

It's common sense, but the firm has gone out of their way to explain these things in the simplest ways possible to prevent any confusion or conflicts. They even alert you before you breach those limits. I don't see what the trick is.

By the way, as offensive as it may sound, I don't think anyone who is comfortable with losing 5% of a large account balance in one day deserves to trade someone else's money. What happens when they have two losing days in a row of that magnitude? 10% if the account is out the window.

Trade however you want on your personal accounts, but don't expect a funder or investor not to do everything possible to ensure that even if they made an error of judgement by agreeing to invest with you, they won't lose too much when they realize their mistake.
  • #715
  • Apr 29, 2021 6:45am Apr 29, 2021 6:45am
Quoting Koop
{quote} How is that any sort of trick? Allowed Daily loss for a day is 2500. If you closed a trade for 600 profit in a day, your daily limit for that day increases to 3100. If you put on new trades that amount to a floating loss of 2500 on that same day, you're safe since you have an extra buffer of $600. However, if you carry over a loss of 2500 into the next day, a day in which you haven't created any buffer with any newly gained profits, then you have clearly violated the daily DD rule. It's common sense, but the firm has gone out of their way...

For me, the daily limit is extremely generous.

Perhaps only on the challenge is it psychologically a very high hurdle for some, because of the profit needed in only 20 some trading days... Most swing strategies, for example, have absolutely no chance.

But after the challenge, it is truly amazingly generous, and I myself would never even risk getting close to it.
If I don't mention SL and/or TP = longer-term setup possibly in the works!
  • #716
  • Apr 29, 2021 8:32am Apr 29, 2021 8:32am
From all I have read till now, among pseudo prop-firms, I find The5ers as the best option. Hope someone could lead to some of them with similar characteristics.

Features that I would like to remark:
- 180 days to reach target profit in the first stage. No days limit on consecutive stages.
- No fixed drawdown rule. Just a stop out level. Maybe too close from starting balance (4%) but in some way compensated with just 6% objective on 180 days.
- Low profit target. 6% on 6 months in the first stage.
- Profit share since the first stage (even if it is only after reaching objectives). In a monthly basis after first stage.
- Target profits in accordance with industry proved track records. 12.36% annually.
Always ready to help
  • #717
  • Apr 29, 2021 10:00am Apr 29, 2021 10:00am
Quoting PaulMF
From all I have read till now, among pseudo prop-firms, I find The5ers as the best option. Hope someone could lead to some of them with similar characteristics. Features that I would like to remark: - 180 days to reach target profit in the first stage. No days limit on consecutive stages. - No fixed drawdown rule. Just a stop out level. Maybe too close from starting balance (4%) but in some way compensated with just 6% objective on 180 days. - Low profit target. 6% on 6 months in the first stage. - Profit share since the first stage (even if it...
Luxtrading is probably better than The5ers.
-No time limit for all stages.
-For stage 3 and above, No fixed drawdown rule. Just a stop out level.
-Profit target is the same as The5ers.
-Profit share is 65% for traders, while it's 50% at The5ers

The only drawback is that Lux trading requires 4% relative drawdown for stage 1 and 2. I guess 99.9% of traders will not get to stage 3.
  • #718
  • Apr 29, 2021 10:49am Apr 29, 2021 10:49am
Quoting ladder
{quote} Luxtrading is probably better than The5ers. -No time limit for all stages. -For stage 3 and above, No fixed drawdown rule. Just a stop out level. -Profit target is the same as The5ers. -Profit share is 65% for traders, while it's 50% at The5ers The only drawback is that Lux trading requires 4% relative drawdown for stage 1 and 2. I guess 99.9% of traders will not get to stage 3.
But they required you to pass 2 steps with relative drawdown. That is 12% profit and 58 (or 29 in total for the first 2 steps?) trading days with 4% relative drawdown.

First step without getting paid for profits?
Always ready to help
  • #719
  • Apr 29, 2021 10:51am Apr 29, 2021 10:51am
If 5ers, CTI or Lux could raise their max drawdown to 10% or even try to match the required profit target (6%), then up their standard program leverage to at least 1:30-1:50, they would be on top of the food chain.

This 4% coupled with a leverage far below what even ESMA allows just doesn't work for someone who is seeking more funding/buying power.

5ers have a nice aggressive model with 1:30 leverage but they ruined with by keeping Max DD at 4%, reducing time to reach target and the increasing the profit target over two times if I'm not mistaken.

Oh yeah, any firm with a relative drawdown is automatically nonsense.
  • #720
  • Apr 29, 2021 11:05am Apr 29, 2021 11:05am
Quoting Koop
If 5ers, CTI or Lux could raise their max drawdown to 10% or even try to match the required profit target (6%), then up their standard program leverage to at least 1:30-1:50, they would be on top of the food chain. This 4% coupled with a leverage far below what even ESMA allows just doesn't work for someone who is seeking more funding/buying power. 5ers have a nice aggressive model with 1:30 leverage but they ruined with by keeping Max DD at 4%, reducing time to reach target and the increasing the profit target over two times if I'm not mistaken....
But if they do that, they would actually have something at risk. The way the model is now, as you know, fee you pay is greater than amount you can lose. There is no benefit to the trader vs. putting the fee in a personal account. As their model stands now, they are simply allowing you to fund your own account without any risk to them whatsoever. Then they take 50% for allowing you such privilege.
Shocks me, that Paul, of all people would think this is a good model.
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