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  • #641
  • Apr 26, 2021 2:54pm Apr 26, 2021 2:54pm
The reason to post it was that a ff memeber asked for the trading idea,And i was think that it could help more members i posted,but you know what?NO problema,.i deleted, .Solved
Play playable hands only
  • #642
  • Apr 26, 2021 2:57pm Apr 26, 2021 2:57pm
Guys the Traders central fund white label factory is getting out of hand. I hope pipmaster et al will consider a blanket black list for this firm and its affiliates. Its disgusting behavior. How the f..... would a firm who can only afford 5k for an out of the box solution afford to put up capital to fund traders. These are firms built to take your fees, nothing else.
  • #643
  • Apr 26, 2021 3:27pm Apr 26, 2021 3:27pm
Quoting Takisd
Guys the Traders central fund white label factory is getting out of hand. I hope pipmaster et al will consider a blanket black list for this firm and its affiliates. Its disgusting behavior. How the f..... would a firm who can only afford 5k for an out of the box solution afford to put up capital to fund traders. These are firms built to take your fees, nothing else.
Was thinking the same thing. For me, there are still only two and I'm watching MFF closely (eval model only). I already made it clear, any offer where the fee is larger than the DD offered, you are better off putting the fee in a personal account as you will wind up with a larger account by stage 2-3 and not have to give up any split, so that eliminates a good chunk of them right off the bat.
  • #644
  • Apr 26, 2021 3:50pm Apr 26, 2021 3:50pm
Quoting Takisd
Guys the Traders central fund white label factory is getting out of hand. I hope pipmaster et al will consider a blanket black list for this firm and its affiliates. Its disgusting behavior. How the f..... would a firm who can only afford 5k for an out of the box solution afford to put up capital to fund traders. These are firms built to take your fees, nothing else.
surprised?
the binary option cash cow had to go, been banned most places/regulators.
this new "prop trading" industry ( there is a good reason frot he quote mark) is basically filling up the void.
there is lots of parallel too,
shady biz, deliberate lies, masked up information, and a similar 60-80% payout for the 'winners'.
when the nigerians jumping on the bandwagon with 1k demo for 300$ challenge, you know that the end isnt far probably.
the "Ghaney Affidavit" was largely ignored, still too many starry eyed noobs lining up to understand the reality, and how the moment no new fees coming in will fold this house of cards.
not at all different from any other ponzi, that last as long as more money keep coming in, some lasting a short while, some quite long, but all end similarly.

i am only aware of AxiSelect and Darwinex that has an fund industry standard-like approach, and importantly a brokerage behind the product so they may actually find soem real benefit of the trades placed ( the very least some added liquidity to their b-book and probably selling out data mined from their program operation).
would also add FixiSelect but they were short lived in the retail trading/prop firm scenario in 2018.

when i post this about FTMO, was not surprisingly largely ignored too.
their highly acclaimed award, and why it was received actually:
"FF Trader s.r.o. developed an online training platform for traders on financial markets. The platform is built to educate clients about proper risk management techniques and to motivate them to be disciplined in trading"

i know, "training platform" and trading platform almost similar for a quick read...but assume everyone care to think wont take long to drop the recognition that
it is 2 totally different thing.
the award was iven for building a trading simulator, and not for "funding for serious traders".

with time being a really finite commodity, every aspiring traders should as themself this question: am i spending my time at something that can last, or am i trying to chase a unicorn?
there is always, always another trade!!
  • #645
  • Apr 26, 2021 3:58pm Apr 26, 2021 3:58pm
I am ok with FTMO's model because they definitely execute some trades. I don't expect people to execute the trades of someone who passed with a high risk coinflip. I don't like Funding talent's model because they keep lying about it. On one hand says they dont execute anything (in court) then when they get backlash say "oh no we execute some" whilst at the same time saying anyone executing is breaking laws. Just unprofessional overall.

I am confident MFF are executing after conversations with them and fxpig. I dont care if they execute everyones, but execute some is enough for me as it means the risk can be mitigated.
  • #646
  • Apr 26, 2021 4:15pm Apr 26, 2021 4:15pm
Quoting Takisd
I am ok with FTMO's model because they definitely execute some trades. I don't expect people to execute the trades of someone who passed with a high risk coinflip. I don't like Funding talent's model because they keep lying about it. On one hand says they dont execute anything (in court) then when they get backlash say "oh no we execute some" whilst at the same time saying anyone executing is breaking laws. Just unprofessional overall. I am confident MFF are executing after conversations with them and fxpig. I dont care if they execute everyones,...
I agree. I believe FTMO executes "some" trades as well. I believe they have developed a revenue/risk model that involves challenge fees, profit from "some" traders, maybe some cash back rebates. I watch my trades with them come within .001 of my stop at times an not hit. To me, if they were looking for me to blow my account, I just think trading conditions wouldn't be this good. I'll tell you this.....any of those trades with my CFTC "regulated" bucketshops in the US...guarantee those stops would've been hit......100 friggin percent.
  • #647
  • Apr 26, 2021 4:19pm Apr 26, 2021 4:19pm
I really only intended to use these firms until my personal account is large enough where the monthly profits meet my monetary goals. Unfortunately, that will take 300-400K. If/when I get there, the dilemma becomes why would I want to park that money at a broker, when I can make 70%/50%/85% and not have a dime of my own at risk. I'll cross that when I get to it, but I truly can't see ever having to put a dime of my own money at risk EVER AGAIN.
  • #648
  • Apr 26, 2021 4:29pm Apr 26, 2021 4:29pm
I think a few of these firms will last the long run, if they start regulating themselves properly. No weekend trading, limited overnight trading, no unlimited lot sizes etc. There is a model to be had here even at 80% payouts or whatever. But we wait to see the evolution.
  • #649
  • Apr 26, 2021 4:32pm Apr 26, 2021 4:32pm
Quoting profitfarmer
{quote} surprised? the binary option cash cow had to go, been banned most places/regulators. this new "prop trading" industry ( there is a good reason frot he quote mark) is basically filling up the void. there is lots of parallel too, shady biz, deliberate lies, masked up information, and a similar 60-80% payout for the 'winners'. when the nigerians jumping on the bandwagon with 1k demo for 300$ challenge, you know that the end isnt far probably. the "Ghaney Affidavit" was largely ignored, still too many starry eyed noobs lining up to understand...
I really love that parallelism. Very interesting. Very smart.

Thanks
Always ready to help
  • #650
  • Apr 26, 2021 11:57pm Apr 26, 2021 11:57pm
Quoting pipmaster77
I really only intended to use these firms until my personal account is large enough where the monthly profits meet my monetary goals. Unfortunately, that will take 300-400K. If/when I get there, the dilemma becomes why would I want to park that money at a broker, when I can make 70%/50%/85% and not have a dime of my own at risk. I'll cross that when I get to it, but I truly can't see ever having to put a dime of my own money at risk EVER AGAIN.
Eventually you might get to the point where you park some of the profit in a quality broker.

Certainly can’t park excess profit in a bank, you get next to nothing.

In any case I have no doubt that even if the current Prop Firm offerings disappear, firstly its going to take some time and secondly there will be many new entrants to follow.

Good trading whichever way you choose to go,

Masterrmind ........
Master your Mind then Master your Trades
  • #651
  • Apr 27, 2021 12:16am Apr 27, 2021 12:16am
Quoting Masterrmind
{quote} Eventually you might get to the point where you park some of the profit in a quality broker. Certainly can’t park excess profit in a bank, you get next to nothing. In any case I have no doubt that even if the current Prop Firm offerings disappear, firstly its going to take some time and secondly there will be many new entrants to follow. Good trading whichever way you choose to go, Masterrmind ........
Hi Mastermind I made a post here about the lack of chart history for all but 2 instruments.
https://www.forexfactory.com/thread/...6#post13511796

Does this aspect not concern you that they are only offering 12 months data for most instruments ?
I am really shocked by it and surprised this hasn't been mentioned before.

Poor quality brokers used to do this many years ago and charge for more chart history.
  • #652
  • Apr 27, 2021 12:34am Apr 27, 2021 12:34am
Personally for me fiding the personal account prop firm is good idea to be used, in other hand these is said before but i will repeat, i have 2 reasons for wich i think that these busines model will last:
1. Home (ftmo) never loses;
2. As soon as you have refund the payment you don't have what to lose even if they dissapere;
  • #653
  • Apr 27, 2021 1:49am Apr 27, 2021 1:49am
Quoting mizi123
Personally for me fiding the personal account prop firm is good idea to be used, in other hand these is said before but i will repeat, i have 2 reasons for wich i think that these busines model will last: 1. Home (ftmo) never loses; 2. As soon as you have refund the payment you don't have what to lose even if they dissapere;
How true , the house always wins. The one or two winners are being paid out by the thousands of losers!
  • #654
  • Apr 27, 2021 2:01am Apr 27, 2021 2:01am
Quoting mizi123
2. As soon as you have refund the payment you don't have what to lose even if they dissapere;
This here is the point most people can't just understand.
As a trader it is great to think long term and plan for the future, but I also think it is seriously detrimental to ignore the potential of gaining short term rewards if the risk can be managed. Every successful scalper would know this.

Why would I be so worried about if a prop firm would still be here in 2023 when I could collect a refund of my fees in one month, be free of any financial risk and then earn a good amount of money over the next 6 months?
How would I have lost anything precious after that?

Nothing stops you from trading for these "pay to play" prop firms while still working with the more standard ones at the same time... More reward for you if you can do it, so why do we keep acting like it's a battle between both sides when our goals are very identical?

FTMO for instance has been prophesied to shut down and run with challenge fees since 2017, it's 2021 and they're still going strong.... Imagine all the people that kept passing up on the offer for 4 years because they feared "it will soon crash" every week that went by.

I personally have suffered from such loss in other business opportunities. Worrying about inconsequential immediate risk and totally ignoring the potential reward.

Shit, I'm still surprised how I haven't slit my wrists for not stocking up on Bitcoin when it was dirt cheap, all because I heard it would phase out and I'd lose my money.
Now I ask myself, how much was a few hundred dollars that I couldn't risk at the time for the possible future rewards? Even if it lasted just a while.


Church dismissed.
  • #655
  • Apr 27, 2021 4:44am Apr 27, 2021 4:44am
Quoting Koop
{quote} This here is the point most people can't just understand. As a trader it is great to think long term and plan for the future, but I also think it is seriously detrimental to ignore the potential of gaining short term rewards if the risk can be managed. Every successful scalper would know this. Why would I be so worried about if a prop firm would still be here in 2023 when I could collect a refund of my fees in one month, be free of any financial risk and then earn a good amount of money over the next 6 months? How would I have lost anything...
1 or 2 , 5 digit withdrawals would sort many lives out who cares what happened to the firm afterwards.
Its like a trade risk your initial fees to see if the trade works or not.
If it doesn't look for the next trade. The perfect trade might come after 5 yrs or never.
on a postive roll...
  • #656
  • Apr 27, 2021 5:06am Apr 27, 2021 5:06am
Quoting FX-DON
{quote} Hi Mastermind I made a post here about the lack of chart history for all but 2 instruments. https://www.forexfactory.com/thread/...6#post13511796 Does this aspect not concern you that they are only offering 12 months data for most instruments ? I am really shocked by it and surprised this hasn't been mentioned before. Poor quality brokers used to do this many years ago and charge for more chart history.
I don't have this issue with limited data on the FTMO feed.

Using MT4 or MT5 I have data on the pairs I trade all the way back to 2000 so it doesn't impact me.

Cryptos only 12 months so if you mainly trade these do your analysis on TradingView or better platform.

cTrader the data provided is indeed less but I use another platform for analysis if required such as Trading View or Optuma etc.

In any case unless you are running an EA that requires bucket loads of historical data then 12 months is usually sufficient for a manual day trader approach.

Masterrmind..........
Master your Mind then Master your Trades
  • #657
  • Apr 27, 2021 5:34am Apr 27, 2021 5:34am
Quoting Masterrmind
{quote} I don't have this issue with limited data on the FTMO feed. Using MT4 or MT5 I have data on the pairs I trade all the way back to 2000 so it doesn't impact me. Cryptos only 12 months so if you mainly trade these do your analysis on TradingView or better platform. cTrader the data provided is indeed less but I use another platform for analysis if required such as Trading View or Optuma etc. In any case unless you are running an EA that requires bucket loads of historical data then 12 months is usually sufficient for a manual day trader approach....
Sufficient if price within the prior 12 months range maybe yes but above/below is not great for me. My main point is to inform people. cTrader is my preferred platform having used for 8 or 9 years now and pretty sure others will take the challenge with that preference too and fully expect a decent chart history.
FTMO should make this point clear that chart history is very limited with this platform choice.
I am using personal account now for analysis but it isn't ideal, it's another screen occupied which is otherwise well used real estate.
  • #658
  • Apr 27, 2021 5:46am Apr 27, 2021 5:46am
FTMO
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  • #659
  • Apr 27, 2021 6:26am Apr 27, 2021 6:26am
I sit in a few chat rooms for prop as i have mentioned before.

The number of times i see people trying to calculate their drawdown rates to the cent before getting failed is astonishing.
No one should be anywhere near the drawdown numbers if they are going to last in this game. Its kinda getting to the point where its just sad.
  • #660
  • Apr 27, 2021 7:10am Apr 27, 2021 7:10am
Quoting FX-DON
{quote} Hi Mastermind I made a post here about the lack of chart history for all but 2 instruments. https://www.forexfactory.com/thread/...6#post13511796 Does this aspect not concern you that they are only offering 12 months data for most instruments ? I am really shocked by it and surprised this hasn't been mentioned before. Poor quality brokers used to do this many years ago and charge for more chart history.
I use another broker for charting and technical analysis. Simple solution.
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