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  • #221
  • Apr 3, 2021 6:53pm Apr 3, 2021 6:53pm
Quoting kCBHk
{quote} The thing interesting about them is that they have this model whereby they pay traders a base pay...
Yes it's another element I guess they have decided to add into the mix but at that base fee it's not really of interest to me.

I'm more interested in finding out what the "bonuses" include !!

Bonuses are useless to me if they only included hotel resort stays and flights because I can pay for them myself, meaning I'd prefer the monetary component rather than a bonus, however, as I've said I still am yet to find out what the bonuses include and what they do not include.

I'll update to this thread once I find the answer.

Masterrmind .......
Master your Mind then Master your Trades
  • #222
  • Apr 3, 2021 8:20pm Apr 3, 2021 8:20pm
Happy to see you back.

Good to to see this thread.

Subscribed
Intraday only.
  • #223
  • Apr 3, 2021 8:24pm Apr 3, 2021 8:24pm
Quoting kCBHk
A very interesting thread: https://www.forexfactory.com/thread/...-trader?page=3
I couldn't really say for sure but from scouring their site it seems like the base pay is for "elite" traders that have been able to scale their accounts up to $2 million.

So, at this point, that would be exactly ZERO traders, and in one year (if they still exist) that would likely also be somewhere in the neighborhood of.....ZERO traders. Just kidding, maybe 1% of traders would someday make it to the $2 million dollar account but in the meantime, it's just another meaningless frill from a new firm trying to get into the game. I'm not trying to sound derogatory towards this firm (yes I am) but the reality is they have no track record and offer nothing that other legitimate firms don't already offer.

Not to mention, if you scaled up to $2 million, you already would have made a boatload of money so a "base pay" frill wouldn't get me all hot and heavy.
Pride always comes before destruction.... -Proverbs 16:18
  • #224
  • Apr 3, 2021 8:27pm Apr 3, 2021 8:27pm
Quoting Masterrmind
{quote} Yes it's another element I guess they have decided to add into the mix but at that base fee it's not really of interest to me. I'm more interested in finding out what the "bonuses" include !! Bonuses are useless to me if they only included hotel resort stays and flights because I can pay for them myself, meaning I'd prefer the monetary component rather than a bonus, however, as I've said I still am yet to find out what the bonuses include and what they do not include. I'll update to this thread once I find the answer. Masterrmind ..........
Just curious as to how you got an investor password for your FTMO trade explorer?

I've tried to make one like I always have from Meta4 and it doesn't allow me to do it.
Pride always comes before destruction.... -Proverbs 16:18
  • #225
  • Apr 3, 2021 11:30pm Apr 3, 2021 11:30pm
Quoting Expo33
{quote} Just curious as to how you got an investor password for your FTMO trade explorer? I've tried to make one like I always have from Meta4 and it doesn't allow me to do it.
Should be straightforward guys.

Simply go to Mailbox, click Registration, click FF Trader S.R.O and there you will find Account number/Password/Investor PW.

This is for MT4 and MT5.

Good trading,

Masterrmind ........
Master your Mind then Master your Trades
  • #226
  • Apr 3, 2021 11:33pm Apr 3, 2021 11:33pm
Quoting Dmh
{quote} I don’t know if you want to do that but you can use your normal account login password for the TE.
Don't need too, refer to my post above.

Masterrmind .......
Master your Mind then Master your Trades
  • #227
  • Apr 4, 2021 12:00am Apr 4, 2021 12:00am
Quoting Masterrmind
{quote} Yes it's another element I guess they have decided to add into the mix but at that base fee it's not really of interest to me. I'm more interested in finding out what the "bonuses" include !! Bonuses are useless to me if they only included hotel resort stays and flights because I can pay for them myself, meaning I'd prefer the monetary component rather than a bonus, however, as I've said I still am yet to find out what the bonuses include and what they do not include. I'll update to this thread once I find the answer. Masterrmind ..........

I believe the bonuses are profit sharing....a percentage of what you earned for the firm..just my guess.

In a real world, that's how asset management firms/prop firms work. The asset managers and traders are paid a fixed salary and another portion comes in bonuses-a proportion of what they made for the company.
  • #228
  • Apr 4, 2021 12:03am Apr 4, 2021 12:03am
Quoting Expo33
{quote} I couldn't really say for sure but from scouring their site it seems like the base pay is for "elite" traders that have been able to scale their accounts up to $2 million. So, at this point, that would be exactly ZERO traders, and in one year (if they still exist) that would likely also be somewhere in the neighborhood of.....ZERO traders. Just kidding, maybe 1% of traders would someday make it to the $2 million dollar account but in the meantime, it's just another meaningless frill from a new firm trying to get into the game. I'm not trying...
Yes, the concept of it is intriguing to me but of course how realistic it is is another issue altogether.

Like what I mentioned, in the real corporate world, proprietary traders have a base pay. So if you truly want to be a "funded trader", that should be the way as well.

Just my two cents.
  • #229
  • Apr 4, 2021 12:17am Apr 4, 2021 12:17am
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} As a funded FTMO trader, my next conquest is Enfoid. Everything in these deals is the fee vs allowable loss, forget about the great scaling plan for a minute. It's very clever marketing that can fool even the best math minds INITIALLY. I'm telling you guys, do the math....if you are paying $300 for $200 max DD, what size position will you be trading? Answer is....smaller than you would if you put that $300 in a personal account. Everything needs to be calculated on risk of ruin, so if you're risk of ruin is 20 trades, you would risk $10...
I see it from a different angle.

Imagine a comparison between let's say personal account, TradeHappy and FTMO using nothing more than available funds as provided if any.

Assume a 300 personal account, 300 TradeHappy fee and a 345 FTMO fee since it's the closest I could find.

TradeHappy has 6 levels approx to hit Elite status so let's use a simplistic compound effect and assume no withdrawals.

Time is not considered a factor here except where such a firm demands.

This also assumes the trader successfully follows the applicable rules as the case may be and completed each if the 6 stages successfully.

Let's use a 12.5% interest rate with a non-fixed term because I don't care how long each account type takes rather just as long as it successfully compounds 6 times.

Personal account starting at 300 will net another 308 after 6 stages.

TradeHappy 20k account with initial fee of 300 will net 77450 to the trader after 6 stages.

FTMO 40K account with initial fee of 345 will net 66166 to the trader plus fee is refunded at first profit split which in this example is after successfully completing the 6th stage.

Personal account gains 308;

TradeHappy account gains 77450; and

FTMO account gains 66166 (or 66511 with fee reimbursed).

Note: profit split has been calculated as per respective website with TradeHappy using 10% on stage 1 (verification stage used as stage 1 since it is the first stage with a profit split) then 50% for all other stages, FTMO assumes a 70/30 split in favor of the trader assuming here that a 12.5% gain is being made monthly and 30% of the months profit will be withdrawn by FTMO Admin but trader profit split will rollover into the next month until the successful completion of 6 months.

Masterrmind .........
Master your Mind then Master your Trades
  • #230
  • Apr 4, 2021 12:24am Apr 4, 2021 12:24am
Quoting Masterrmind
{quote} I see it from a different angle. Imagine a comparison between let's say personal account, TradeHappy and FTMO using nothing more than available funds as provided if any. Assume a 300 personal account, 300 TradeHappy fee and a 345 FTMO fee since it's the closest I could find. TradeHappy has 6 levels approx to hit Elite status so let's use a simplistic compound effect and assume no withdrawals. Time is not considered a factor here except where such a firm demands. This also assumes the trader successfully follows the applicable rules as the...
I'm a little surprised you are cool with the DD restrictions, given your previous GamblerPro thread.
  • #231
  • Apr 4, 2021 12:32am Apr 4, 2021 12:32am
One might ask why trade FTMO instead of TradeHappy?

TradeHappy has a thin banded drawdown pretty much all the way through at a very tight 4% and I'm assuming that if breached it would mean the end of the account.

I could understand having a tightening of the DD band as account size increases such as steps of 15, 10, 8, 6, ... but to have it 6, 4 , 4, 4, 4 etc is too tight in my opinion.

FTMO allows up to 10% all the way through, still tight to some extent but certainly more workable then TradeHappy.

In any case, FTMO has been around longer with at least some form of track record whilst the other firm is still fresh.

Masterrmind .......
Master your Mind then Master your Trades
  • #232
  • Apr 4, 2021 12:44am Apr 4, 2021 12:44am
Quoting kCBHk
{quote} I'm a little surprised you are cool with the DD restrictions, given your previous GamblerPro thread.
The purpose of that thread was to allow all trader types to participate in a friendly competition without restriction.

I am heavily against lagging indicators in general and they are forbidden in all my threads except GamblerPro.

Post 1 describes the 2 different leaderboard rankings and the criteria used including the HRT formula.

Unfortunately, I had very few traders willing to take up the challenge with me.

The thread remains open.

ps. I trade my primary accounts on Interactive Brokers and rarely if ever hit 5% DD so I'm certainly used to trading tight. FX spot is a nice way to have some fun coz the primary trading is not fun at all, in fact it's very boring.

Good trading,
Master your Mind then Master your Trades
  • #233
  • Apr 4, 2021 6:56am Apr 4, 2021 6:56am
Hi,

Anyone interested in Darwinex? I see many investors there.

Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: darwinex3.png Size: 49 KB

Thanks
"The markets can remain irrational longer than you can remain solv
  • #234
  • Apr 4, 2021 7:09am Apr 4, 2021 7:09am
Quoting shyean
Hi, Anyone interested in Darwinex? I see many investors there. {image} Thanks
Do they allow Pepperstone?
  • #235
  • Apr 4, 2021 8:34am Apr 4, 2021 8:34am
Mastermind, I think you've put your finger on the perennial problem. Violating the daily and account DD. This is what knocks 99% of Prop traders out of the game.

I think that you've done the right thing going for the 200k option. I had exactly the same thing in mind in perhaps going for TPT (The Prop Trading) 200k account which comes in at $729 (with discount). What holds me back is the point which Pipmaster made regarding their payout track record which is practically non-existent. It's a big saving compared to FTMO but there is a risk

So I suppose it really does come down to one option - the FTMO 200k account which gives one that extra "breathing space" regarding losses and of course if one succeeds, one gets the refund and if one can achieve 10% a month one is looking at a 14k monthly income. Not too bad.
  • #236
  • Edited 7:59pm Apr 4, 2021 10:12am | Edited 7:59pm
Quoting Masterrmind
{quote} I see it from a different angle. Imagine a comparison between let's say personal account, TradeHappy and FTMO using nothing more than available funds as provided if any. Assume a 300 personal account, 300 TradeHappy fee and a 345 FTMO fee since it's the closest I could find. TradeHappy has 6 levels approx to hit Elite status so let's use a simplistic compound effect and assume no withdrawals. Time is not considered a factor here except where such a firm demands. This also assumes the trader successfully follows the applicable rules as the...
And that's exactly the marketing mastery, I am talking about....you need to apply the % gain to the the available drawdown as this is what will limit the size of your trades. As recently as a month ago, I was absolutely 100% convinced as well until I took the eval with similar firm. If you have 300 available DD, that is your risk of ruin, if you have 300 in a personal account, 300 is your risk of ruin. If you risk, say 5% of your "risk of ruin", it's $15 per trade in both accounts. Let's say your average stop is 30 pips, you are trading.50 per pip in both accounts. As you scale, DD is still 4%, your personal account will outpace the prop firm by stage 2 at most and stage 3 at all of them. Not only that, but you do not give up 50% of your profits in your own account and that money is yours ( you can actually withdrawal it).

The reason the FTMO/Enfoid challenge is beneficial is you are paying $640 (FTMO) or 1% (Enfoid) for 10K in drawdown. Your positions can be significantly larger than if you put that amount in a personal account. Using the same "risk of ruin", you can trade $500 per trade.

In the most basic explanation I can provide, these models are simply allowing you to fund yourself and then taking 50% for the privilege of allowing you to fund yourself. It's absolutely genius, they are literally risking 0 and keeping 50%.
  • #237
  • Apr 4, 2021 10:19am Apr 4, 2021 10:19am
Quoting shyean
Hi, Anyone interested in Darwinex? I see many investors there. {image} Thanks
If I wasn't in the "land of the free" USA, would've been there awhile back.
  • #238
  • Apr 4, 2021 10:20am Apr 4, 2021 10:20am
Quoting kCBHk
{quote} Do they allow Pepperstone?
I believe your "track record" account can be broker of your choice.
  • #239
  • Apr 4, 2021 10:26am Apr 4, 2021 10:26am
Quoting Mtinifx
Mastermind, I think you've put your finger on the perennial problem. Violating the daily and account DD. This is what knocks 99% of Prop traders out of the game. I think that you've done the right thing going for the 200k option. I had exactly the same thing in mind in perhaps going for TPT (The Prop Trading) 200k account which comes in at $729 (with discount). What holds me back is the point which Pipmaster made regarding their payout track record which is practically non-existent. It's a big saving compared to FTMO but there is a risk...
I do not understand.

whatever be the account size, 100k or 200k the daily max is 5 % and Max loss is 10 ?

what is the benefit of having 200k account with respect to loss ?
Intraday only.
  • #240
  • Apr 4, 2021 10:27am Apr 4, 2021 10:27am
Quoting Mtinifx
Mastermind, I think you've put your finger on the perennial problem. Violating the daily and account DD. This is what knocks 99% of Prop traders out of the game. I think that you've done the right thing going for the 200k option. I had exactly the same thing in mind in perhaps going for TPT (The Prop Trading) 200k account which comes in at $729 (with discount). What holds me back is the point which Pipmaster made regarding their payout track record which is practically non-existent. It's a big saving compared to FTMO but there is a risk...
Exactly, once your fee is refunded, you have 0 skin in the game. Worst case scenario, if you blow the funded account, is the loss of time and effort as you need to start over. Which is big, don't get me wrong there. Keep in mind, once funded, there are no targets, you can reduce risk by half, still make 7K per month. You can also get another 200K challenge using your profits and make 14k with half the risk.

The key with all of it, IMO, is to use the prop profits to compound your personal account. Once the gains there satisfy your monetary goals, you need to earn even less % wise, , as you keep 100%. Keep trading the prop at that point as it is just extra $$$, but at that point, if something happens, you no longer really need them.
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