W D. Gann was a phony who made money selling courses | Metals Mine

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W D. Gann was a phony who made money selling courses

  • #1
  • First Post: Edited Dec 31, 2019 12:29am Dec 30, 2019 11:34pm | Edited Dec 31, 2019 12:29am
“I interviewed W.D. Gann’s son, an analyst for a Boston bank. He told me that his famous father could not support his family by trading but earned his living by writing and selling instructional courses. When W.D. Gann died in the 1950s, his estate, including his house, was valued at slightly over $100,000.”

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Delbert_Gann

Most these Guru book writers aren't great traders. They write books and sell courses to make their living.
Be very careful when your new, choose cafully what your reading or studying.

The real secret is there is no magic setup.. no hard system. Good trading comes from years of experience.
When you watch the market for years you get a feeling of what and when something is likely to happen.
You may be trading something like support and resistance... But the setup will only work 3 out of 10 times.
You personal experience will let you know when its most likely to work, based your personal past experiences.

My point is.. trading is about your personal understanding of the market, based on experience... Its nothing that can be explained in a book or hard formula.
Everybody see's the market though their own lens of experience, so its impossible to share or teach. You must put in the years of work to get good.
The only system that will work is one designed by and for yourself.
  • #2
  • Dec 31, 2019 6:07am Dec 31, 2019 6:07am
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Why is a Raven like a Writing Desk?
  • #3
  • Edited 11:44am Dec 31, 2019 10:14am | Edited 11:44am
Quoting bloodpoodle
“I interviewed W.D. Gann’s son, an analyst for a Boston bank. He told me that his famous father could not support his family by trading but earned his living by writing and selling instructional courses. When W.D. Gann died in the 1950s, his estate, including his house, was valued at slightly over $100,000.” Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Delbert_Gann Most these Guru book writers aren't great traders. They write books and sell courses to make their living. .
$100,000 in the 1955 would actually have been quite a substantial amount of dosh. I'm guessing around the equivalent of 10 million in 2020 dollars.

What is more interesting/revealing (and indirectly corroborates what his son said) is that elsewhere I have read that all his paperwork and scribblings was fastidiously kept by the great man himself. Enough to fill up a large house.

No broker statements were ever found.

I happen to enjoy reading books and have read more than my fair share of those relating to trading, including the teachings of Gann. My opinion is that to be a good and credible skeptic you have to actually know and understand your protagonist's hypothesis and not just simply rely on what others have said about it (that is hearsay in legal speak, and of no value).
  • #4
  • Dec 31, 2019 12:43pm Dec 31, 2019 12:43pm
Quoting bloodpoodle
“I interviewed W.D. Gann’s son, an analyst for a Boston bank. He told me that his famous father could not support his family by trading but earned his living by writing and selling instructional courses. When W.D. Gann died in the 1950s, his estate, including his house, was valued at slightly over $100,000.” Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Delbert_Gann Most these Guru book writers aren't great traders. They write books and sell courses to make their living. Be very careful when your new, choose cafully what your reading...
Some of what you wrote is true and some of it is false. I don't have the patience nor the time to break it down for you. Hopefully, the reader will have a discerning eye.
Learn from your mistakes and march on.
  • #5
  • Dec 31, 2019 12:47pm Dec 31, 2019 12:47pm
Quoting LloydOz
{quote} $100,000 in the 1955 would actually have been quite a substantial amount of dosh. I'm guessing around the equivalent of 10 million in 2020 dollars. What is more interesting/revealing (and indirectly corroborates what his son said) is that elsewhere I have read that all his paperwork and scribblings was fastidiously kept by the great man himself. Enough to fill up a large house. No broker statements were ever found. I happen to enjoy reading books and have read more than my fair share of those relating to trading, including the teachings...
Absolutely correct. Blood is bleeding anger because the Diamond Man removed him from his thread after he violated the rules. Not sure if Gann made money, but we all have our way of trading & what works for one surely may not work for others. I happen to see much merit in the Gann Square of Nine. Good post my friend.
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  • #6
  • Edited 1:46pm Dec 31, 2019 1:23pm | Edited 1:46pm
Adjusted for inflation, $100,000 in 1955 is equal to $940,947 in 2019. Not 10,000,000!
(This is exactly what I'm talking about, people guessing, or trusting.. without doing simple research and facts)

Source:
https://www.dollartimes.com/inflatio...nt=1&year=1955

Wow your guess was way off.. Just like your comment. His son said he made all his money from selling trading courses.

I'm not really sure what your point is. I hope its not inferring that he was a great trader, because he could con people into buying his bs trading courses.

also I'm not bleeding anger about diamond man... I don't get mad internet stuff. I'm just putting out a warning to new traders about all the con men selling courses and systems like Gann. I hope this helps at least one person find the right path to profitability.

What i say, most people don't wanna hear... Trading is hard... It takes 5-10 years to gain enough experience to be consistant.. And there is no set system or indicator that will work consistently if you take every signal. People wanna here that trading is easy money, and they are gonna be a millionaire on a yacht with a Lambo in 5 years. Very few actally reach Lambo status unless they are managing other peoples money and have a really great run. (fund manager)
The only system that will work is one designed by and for yourself.
  • #7
  • Dec 31, 2019 2:47pm Dec 31, 2019 2:47pm
There are countless innovators and pioneers who sadly did not enjoy there fruits of labour.

Gann,s work was not completed or published.

I can see why flippant eyes miss such simple truths.

Over educated and time conscious is sadly the food of today.
  • #8
  • Dec 31, 2019 5:20pm Dec 31, 2019 5:20pm
Quoting bloodpoodle
“I interviewed W.D. Gann’s son, an analyst for a Boston bank. He told me that his famous father could not support his family by trading but earned his living by writing and selling instructional courses. When W.D. Gann died in the 1950s, his estate, including his house, was valued at slightly over $100,000.” Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Delbert_Gann Most these Guru book writers aren't great traders. They write books and sell courses to make their living. Be very careful when your new, choose cafully what your reading...

Brilliant statement, I could not agree more. Where there is hope & potential to make a lot of money, there will be someone willing to sell a book or sell a course to teach you how to make that money.

J
J12
  • #9
  • Dec 31, 2019 5:24pm Dec 31, 2019 5:24pm
Quoting here2there
{quote} Some of what you wrote is true and some of it is false. I don't have the patience nor the time to break it down for you. Hopefully, the reader will have a discerning eye.
It would actually be good to read what you think this true & what you think is false.
J12
  • #10
  • Dec 31, 2019 5:43pm Dec 31, 2019 5:43pm
The real secret is there is no magic setup.. no hard system. Good trading comes from years of experience. When you watch the market for years you get a feeling of what and when something is likely to happen. You may be trading something like support and resistance... But the setup will only work 3 out of 10 times. You personal experience will let you know when its most likely to work, based your personal past experiences. My point is.. trading is about your personal understanding of the market, based on experience... Its nothing that can be explained in a book or hard formula. Everybody see's the market though their own lens of experience, so its impossible to share or teach. You must put in the years of work to get good.[/quote]


Absolutely spot on!!
  • #11
  • Dec 31, 2019 6:47pm Dec 31, 2019 6:47pm
Quoting bloodpoodle
Most these Guru book writers aren't great traders. They write books and sell courses to make their living. Be very careful when your new, choose cafully what your reading or studying. The real secret is there is no magic setup.. no hard system.
That's a good point and its one place I went wrong early on. There's no established path to trading success so its easy for someone to like Gann to look like they know what they're doing and lead you astray.
Self-sufficiency is the greatest of all wealth. - Epicurus
  • #12
  • Dec 31, 2019 10:03pm Dec 31, 2019 10:03pm
Quoting bloodpoodle
Adjusted for inflation, $100,000 in 1955 is equal to $940,947 in 2019. Not 10,000,000! (This is exactly what I'm talking about, people guessing, or trusting.. without doing simple research and facts) Source: https://www.dollartimes.com/inflatio...nt=1&year=1955 Wow your guess was way off.. Just like your comment. His son said he made all his money from selling trading courses. I'm not really sure what your point is. I hope its not inferring that he was a great trader, because he could con people into buying his bs trading...
I was talking about actual inflation, not that published by a government department - trust their figures at your own peril. They struggle to take account of changes in technology and general living standards (like housing) and many other changes.

Like, a Pentium 166 MHz computer cost $3,000 new (I know, my first desktop). 10 years later it cost $100 - this is what they factor in until they change the basket about every 10 years.

An "average" three bedroom home in suburban Melbourne, Australia, cost $7,000 in 1955. Today, you may get change out of $700,000 if you are lucky. It may be vastly different in Nth America. Anyone know the price of a house?

I would adjust my figure down to seven million.

I inferred nothing about Gann's trading "greatness". Do you wish for me to repeat what everyone else can read?
  • #13
  • Dec 31, 2019 10:21pm Dec 31, 2019 10:21pm
nah. the problem you have is you. market isnt fighting you, you fight yourself. for every guy complaining about this or that, others are making dough. put your big boy pants on and find your edge.
  • #14
  • Jan 1, 2020 12:58am Jan 1, 2020 12:58am
Not sure why you would use house prices as your only marker of inflation... Especially in Austrailia where chinese are trying to get money out of the country by investing in austrailian houses and property.
There is a simple way to tell if housing is a bubble.. When the average worker can't afford the average house.. Its a bubble.
And by my standard housing is a bubble fueled by historically low interest rates and chinese investments.

Take something more reasonable like a gallon of gas .. 29 cents in 1955... About 2.73 to day..
which is in line with my first inflation estimate.
The only system that will work is one designed by and for yourself.
  • #15
  • Jan 1, 2020 5:25am Jan 1, 2020 5:25am
Quoting bloodpoodle
Not sure why you would use house prices as your only marker of inflation... Especially in Austrailia where chinese are trying to get money out of the country by investing in austrailian houses and property. There is a simple way to tell if housing is a bubble.. When the average worker can't afford the average house.. Its a bubble. And by my standard housing is a bubble fueled by historically low interest rates and chinese investments. Take something more reasonable like a gallon of gas .. 29 cents in 1955... About 2.73 to day.. which is in line...
Thankyou for asking. I chose a house because in itself it is an amalgam of a thousand different "things" - like a basket used to calculate the inflation metric. From buying a vacant block of land to having a fully functioning house.

Whilst possibly legitimate issues to a certain class of individuals, I shan't engage in any conspiracy theories regarding the Chinese, world bankers colluding to manipulate interest rates, and the plight of the proletariat.

On the other hand, I too am pleased that gas/petrol prices remain relatively low - cheaper than bottled water in many cases. Furthermore, I understand that typical fuel economy during the 1935 to 1974 period was about 12 or 14 miles per gallon. I understand that it is now typically in the vicinity of 30 to 40 miles per gallon.

That would make the cost of "gas" about a third of $2.73, about 90 cents, three times the cost in 1955. Which means that $100,000 in 1955 would really be about $300,000 in 2020.

Should you be unable to follow my simple logic someone with qualifications other than my own may be of assistance.
  • #16
  • Edited 6:42am Jan 1, 2020 5:54am | Edited 6:42am
Quoting Ef5
{quote} That's a good point and its one place I went wrong early on. There's no established path to trading success so its easy for someone to like Gann to look like they know what they're doing and lead you astray.

Quite so - although I disagree Blood's advice about choosing carefully what to read. I say read as much as you can from a wide variety of ideas, or get a book by a credible author which is a summary of everything. These exist, as you know..or you may just end up marrying the first person who you kiss.

I don't envy the people who manage to turn $400 into millions, with seemingly childlike naivety. Being unicorns and mermaids, they have missed out on all the fun of being human.

In Gann's case, he appealed to one's natural curiosity in the complicated and esoteric - mystical - method that he engaged in. And lo, it would occasionally work, quite spectacularly. Bit like winning Tatts. People buy books on how to win that, too. True.
  • #17
  • Jan 1, 2020 6:44am Jan 1, 2020 6:44am
funny thing is that all people trying to explain to others that only experience will lead to consistent profitable trading...(feel obviously superior and intelligent) but ignore the fact that even if they got successful (what people only ever talking about, never prove) that this isnīt a proof that other methods are going to always fail.

Even years of experience doesnīt guarantee you any success. People often generally assuming things that happen to them to be something like a physical law...
It isnīt
TWEE, revoke my membership.
  • #18
  • Jan 1, 2020 9:07am Jan 1, 2020 9:07am
"W D. Gann was a phony who made money selling courses"

True about Gann...
Now there is certainly a valid approach to his method ..
When the trader applying the Gann method has lost again numerous times and his/her account is about to be wiped out .... again
It's always comforting and reassuring that there is always some magic line there on the chart that certainly this time for sure will save the account from another margin call.
  • #19
  • Jan 8, 2020 9:04am Jan 8, 2020 9:04am
Quoting bloodpoodle
Not sure why you would use house prices as your only marker of inflation... Especially in Austrailia where chinese are trying to get money out of the country by investing in austrailian houses and property. There is a simple way to tell if housing is a bubble.. When the average worker can't afford the average house.. Its a bubble. And by my standard housing is a bubble fueled by historically low interest rates and chinese investments. Take something more reasonable like a gallon of gas .. 29 cents in 1955... About 2.73 to day.. which is in line...
Thats not strictly correct. A bubble is mostly fueled by hype whereas if the investments are coming from abroad and a market that can afford them it isnt a bubble but just makes them UN affordable for local people. Similar is in the UK
Pip Goes The Weasel
  • #20
  • Jan 9, 2020 3:58pm Jan 9, 2020 3:58pm
Quoting adrazz
{quote} Thats not strictly correct. A bubble is mostly fueled by hype whereas if the investments are coming from abroad and a market that can afford them it isnt a bubble but just makes them UN affordable for local people. Similar is in the UK
Interesting... I might add the classical (one of) definition(s) of a bubble... If EVERYONE is an expert and makes a lot of money/return out of anything... it is most probably a bubble

Haven't found a better story then Kennedy's

The Roaring Twenties come to a close The atmosphere of the late '20s (financially speaking at least) can be summed up in the following (likely apocryphal) anecdote. In the winter of 1928, Joe Kennedy decided to stop to have his shoes shined before he started his day's work at the office. When the boy finished, he offered Kennedy a stock tip: "Buy Hindenburg." Kennedy soon sold off his stocks, thinking: “”You know it's time to sell when shoeshine boys give you stock tips. This bull market is over.
https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Great_Depression

Kennedy later claimed he understood that the rampant stock speculation of the late 1920s would lead to a market crash. Supposedly, he said that he knew it was time to get out of the market when he received stock tips from a shoe-shine boy. Kennedy survived the crash "because he possessed a passion for facts, a complete lack of sentiment and a marvelous sense of timing". During the Great Depression, Kennedy vastly increased his fortune by investing most of his money in real estate. In 1929, Kennedy's fortune was estimated to be $4 million (equivalent to $59.6 million today). By 1935, his wealth had increased to $180 million (equivalent to $3.36 billion today).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_P._Kennedy_Sr.

I also think that you and bloodpoodle both brought some interesting points I believe both are true, the question is, if we breakdown bubble to components, what is the ratio between them...

BTW, I believe the FBI has a rule that if somethings yields/promises 10%+/year return(s).. it is most probably a SCAM
Can you afford to take that chance?
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