Disliked{quote} Can't yet! but should it have a killer application, it is a matter of requesting this option from the developer of the indicator. No useful application, suggested by members here or the Don, no need to waste time coding it.Ignored
- #182
- Dec 21, 2019 9:01am Dec 21, 2019 9:01am
- Joined Oct 2011 | Status: Trader | 1,418 Posts
Small disciplines repeated with consistency lead to great achievements.
- #183
- Dec 21, 2019 11:42am Dec 21, 2019 11:42am
- Joined Aug 2009 | Status: Reading the TAPE | 2,389 Posts
Without VSA, you're playing checkers while the Smart Money plays chess.
- #184
- Dec 21, 2019 12:35pm Dec 21, 2019 12:35pm
- Joined Oct 2011 | Status: Trader | 1,418 Posts
Small disciplines repeated with consistency lead to great achievements.
- #185
- Dec 21, 2019 12:45pm Dec 21, 2019 12:45pm
- Joined Oct 2011 | Status: Trader | 1,418 Posts
Small disciplines repeated with consistency lead to great achievements.
- #186
- Edited 10:12am Dec 22, 2019 9:48am | Edited 10:12am
- Joined Dec 2015 | Status: Trader | 1,505 Posts
Hello jmflukeii...I apologize for the delayed response. It is the week end and I am busy with family matters that, of late, have been very pressing. But you have brought up something that I think worthy of study.
In my futures trading I use TradeStation with an add on called "OF-G" that creates the profiles...as with many of these softwares, I chose to use the visual profiles rather than the actual order flow numbers...again, I just can't think that fast. So this indicator shows varying shades of blue and red to represent the difference in order flow delta, as a percent of delta. The deeper the color the greater the percent of buying or selling. Deep blue almost all buying, lighter shades of blue less percent of buying (but still overall buying). And grey is a draw - or neutral order flow between the opposing aggression in the market. Agressive buyers (@bid) - Agressive sellers (@sell), with no clear winner...the percent difference is negligible.
As a side note, please don't ask me the math behind these numbers...I honestly don't know, and didn't design the software. And I don't want this to again degrade into a discussion of mathematics, systems, and software. The point of this thread is to "see" the order flow developing in real time and understand what is happening behind the price movements so that we can make more consistently accurate decisions regarding our participation.
Yes this is correct. My understanding of the software is that each histogram is "adjusted" 1/2 a tick (bids 0.5 up and asks 0.5 down) to provide an accurate histogram at each level. The actual price levels are literally between the histogram bars. And you can easily confirm this by looking at the areas where my entries and exits occurred. They are "on the line" between the histogram bars.
You are not misunderstanding the bars at all. I have a blow up shot of the area you refer to:
The area you refer to was simply a retest of a prior absorption level (call it a shake out) where active buyers were waiting. And this active buying was so intense it neutralized the selling order flow that created that push downward. And this brings up a very good point about using order flow that I was earlier wanting to point out.
Not every low in price is the result of absorption. There are times (like this one) where active buying was simply waiting to jump in. This is especially true of ranging conditions. Often times, the passive participation (absorption) is what causes the halt in price advance (up or down), and after price responds, it price will often return to the same area and this time is lifted by active participation. This occurs mostly because the opposing aggressors (in this case sellers) are stopped out, causing the rise in price, but then are active again at the highs and push price back down to the level where the passive buyers took their positions...this is often called a "stop hunt" or "retest". But it is simply one group of active participants counteracting the order flow of the opposing group of active participants.
This is accurate and exactly what occurred on this candle. I was watching it form and saw it in real time. When this candle was at the low, it read all red delta...but the candle had not yet fully formed. I saw the red delta change to light red, then to neutral. This level eventually became the Volume Point of Control (VPOC) marked with a round dot. As soon as I saw the neutral order flow, I was ready to trade long, but then price moved below that area, and was met with ALL buying. As soon as I saw that, I entered long...but wasn't quick enough and my order (a market order) was "slipped" a tick or two higher. But I was immediately rewarded and price moved higher...
But price came up just short of my target and once again showed the buying order flow neutralized...and this caused me to Stop and Reverse (SAR) just before the open...in retrospect perhaps not the best decision I've ever made. But I posted that chart because the discussion had turned to the theme of "market manipulation" and this was my response. That YES, there are times when prices can be manipulated by a few ticks by participants with large amounts of money and that often that occurs at the open of a market to "shake out" the weaker players.
But the point I was trying to make in all that was that those players must participate the same way everyone else does, and their order flow will give them away every time. The question is can I read it fast enough to position myself correctly. Each of my first two trades came up short because the price moves were large amounts of money pushing price around but only just enough to use sell stops to position a large group of orders. And that this was occurring so quickly it was very difficult to react to in real time. The one important candle I have marked took only 20 seconds to complete.
I hope this accurately answered your questions
EDIT** I also noted the above described phenomenon occurring on the Ninja trader chart you posted:
This is how I try to position when I am trading...IF I can think fast enough
DP, I’m quoting this post as it contains a chart I’d like some clarity on, purely technical related to how the bars are constructed. I assume the blue horizontal bars are BUY DELTA, red is SELL DELTA. I’m not sure why there are different shades of these two as sometimes the blue bars are longer/wider and darker blue, but sometimes the dark blue are shorter...
As a side note, please don't ask me the math behind these numbers...I honestly don't know, and didn't design the software. And I don't want this to again degrade into a discussion of mathematics, systems, and software. The point of this thread is to "see" the order flow developing in real time and understand what is happening behind the price movements so that we can make more consistently accurate decisions regarding our participation.
...The other question I had is: is the delta at each of these price points a diagonal delta or horizontal at that price point?...
...The first long in your image; I have been watching these bars for awhile now, and I have not seen a bar with such strong buy delta near the lows of a bar (such as where you took your long). So either I’m misunderstanding your chart/how it’s constructed or my profile bars aren’t telling me the same thing as your profile bars...
The area you refer to was simply a retest of a prior absorption level (call it a shake out) where active buyers were waiting. And this active buying was so intense it neutralized the selling order flow that created that push downward. And this brings up a very good point about using order flow that I was earlier wanting to point out.
Not every low in price is the result of absorption. There are times (like this one) where active buying was simply waiting to jump in. This is especially true of ranging conditions. Often times, the passive participation (absorption) is what causes the halt in price advance (up or down), and after price responds, it price will often return to the same area and this time is lifted by active participation. This occurs mostly because the opposing aggressors (in this case sellers) are stopped out, causing the rise in price, but then are active again at the highs and push price back down to the level where the passive buyers took their positions...this is often called a "stop hunt" or "retest". But it is simply one group of active participants counteracting the order flow of the opposing group of active participants.
...Generally I see heavy sell delta at the low of the bars which I see as absorption, but it seems to me that if you see absorption at the low (i.e. heavy Bid volume but price moves up) and then heavy buy delta kicks in (i.e. heavy ask volume with price also moving up), that would be a good sign that not only are passive buyers buying heavy, but buyers (including perhaps the passive buyers that didn’t fill all their passive orders) are having to also now chase price back up as they didn’t fill all their orders at the low....
But price came up just short of my target and once again showed the buying order flow neutralized...and this caused me to Stop and Reverse (SAR) just before the open...in retrospect perhaps not the best decision I've ever made. But I posted that chart because the discussion had turned to the theme of "market manipulation" and this was my response. That YES, there are times when prices can be manipulated by a few ticks by participants with large amounts of money and that often that occurs at the open of a market to "shake out" the weaker players.
But the point I was trying to make in all that was that those players must participate the same way everyone else does, and their order flow will give them away every time. The question is can I read it fast enough to position myself correctly. Each of my first two trades came up short because the price moves were large amounts of money pushing price around but only just enough to use sell stops to position a large group of orders. And that this was occurring so quickly it was very difficult to react to in real time. The one important candle I have marked took only 20 seconds to complete.
I hope this accurately answered your questions
EDIT** I also noted the above described phenomenon occurring on the Ninja trader chart you posted:
This is how I try to position when I am trading...IF I can think fast enough
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- #187
- Dec 22, 2019 9:26pm Dec 22, 2019 9:26pm
- Joined Oct 2011 | Status: Trader | 1,418 Posts
Small disciplines repeated with consistency lead to great achievements.
- #188
- Dec 22, 2019 10:00pm Dec 22, 2019 10:00pm
- Joined Dec 2015 | Status: Trader | 1,505 Posts
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- #190
- Dec 24, 2019 9:29am Dec 24, 2019 9:29am
- Joined Dec 2015 | Status: Trader | 1,505 Posts
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DonPato
I trade mostly stocks and etfs. I will place one of my trades which were traded form last week till tuesday.
TGS:
This is a weekly chart. The first bar on 12.08.2019 is climax and absorption bar at once. This is a news bar. Sellers were aggressively selling in a hurry and panic. They found buyers on 6.60 and beneath which was the range last traded between buyers and sellers in the period of november 2015 - september 2016.
From 11 to 22 of november there is an exhaustion phase were late sellers are selling to the buyers. Culmination of this phase is absorption of the sellers from 25 to 29 of november where I see very small range bar with massive volume.
This is a one day chart where I can see that on 26 of november there was massive absorption of the seller by the buyers.
Above Weekly and one day charts gave me a context and wider scenario of my trade which was traded on 1 hour and 15 minute charts.
This is one hour chart. I put the red line to know on what price level buyers overcame seller last time. This red line was formed from september 2015 to november 2016. I can see that beneath this level buyers are taking stocks from the sellers. This level is again the bastion of sellers which were overthrown by buyers.
Transactions between buyers and seller, which are made by putting orders and causing the order flow, are seen on the chart by formating a pattern. This pattern is symmetric, volatile and make attention of market participants including me. DonPato do you see the pattern?
This is a 15 minutes chart which is crucial for me to take a trade.
By blue horizontal line i sign the most recent area where sellers are selling the stocks. I am waiting for a moment where buyers will beat the sellers in their game causing stop loss cascade.
Bye red arrow i mark the last action of the buyers in an attempt to beat the sellers and activate their stop losses.
The sellers were finally beaten and their stop losses activated.
The price went to the red horizontal line mantioned above where sellers again felt strong. They push the price to the blue horizontal line where now is the stronghold of buyers.
By blue arrow i mark the strength of buyers which defended their level. This was my enter.
By red arrow i mark the level 7.43 which was my target level. I wanted buyers to buy the stocks till they will fill the gap. By gap i mean lack of liquidity and sellers. This level is closly watched by everybody. Firstly by early buyers including me which set their price target on that level, secondly by late buyers who wanted to buy after breakout of the gap (suckers who think by technical analysis. Probably all their indicators now are sending alerts to buy), thirdly by sellers who like to play short.
Above I mantioned about the pattern. This pattern occur in every time frame every day NOT in every stock but in enough to make money.
This is my analysis after one year of trying to understand the market. After reading your thread i will try to connect your footprints with my patterns in order to be more precise and extend my edge over other participants of the market.
I trade mostly stocks and etfs. I will place one of my trades which were traded form last week till tuesday.
TGS:
This is a weekly chart. The first bar on 12.08.2019 is climax and absorption bar at once. This is a news bar. Sellers were aggressively selling in a hurry and panic. They found buyers on 6.60 and beneath which was the range last traded between buyers and sellers in the period of november 2015 - september 2016.
From 11 to 22 of november there is an exhaustion phase were late sellers are selling to the buyers. Culmination of this phase is absorption of the sellers from 25 to 29 of november where I see very small range bar with massive volume.
This is a one day chart where I can see that on 26 of november there was massive absorption of the seller by the buyers.
Above Weekly and one day charts gave me a context and wider scenario of my trade which was traded on 1 hour and 15 minute charts.
This is one hour chart. I put the red line to know on what price level buyers overcame seller last time. This red line was formed from september 2015 to november 2016. I can see that beneath this level buyers are taking stocks from the sellers. This level is again the bastion of sellers which were overthrown by buyers.
Transactions between buyers and seller, which are made by putting orders and causing the order flow, are seen on the chart by formating a pattern. This pattern is symmetric, volatile and make attention of market participants including me. DonPato do you see the pattern?
This is a 15 minutes chart which is crucial for me to take a trade.
By blue horizontal line i sign the most recent area where sellers are selling the stocks. I am waiting for a moment where buyers will beat the sellers in their game causing stop loss cascade.
Bye red arrow i mark the last action of the buyers in an attempt to beat the sellers and activate their stop losses.
The sellers were finally beaten and their stop losses activated.
The price went to the red horizontal line mantioned above where sellers again felt strong. They push the price to the blue horizontal line where now is the stronghold of buyers.
By blue arrow i mark the strength of buyers which defended their level. This was my enter.
By red arrow i mark the level 7.43 which was my target level. I wanted buyers to buy the stocks till they will fill the gap. By gap i mean lack of liquidity and sellers. This level is closly watched by everybody. Firstly by early buyers including me which set their price target on that level, secondly by late buyers who wanted to buy after breakout of the gap (suckers who think by technical analysis. Probably all their indicators now are sending alerts to buy), thirdly by sellers who like to play short.
Above I mantioned about the pattern. This pattern occur in every time frame every day NOT in every stock but in enough to make money.
This is my analysis after one year of trying to understand the market. After reading your thread i will try to connect your footprints with my patterns in order to be more precise and extend my edge over other participants of the market.
- #192
- Edited Dec 27, 2019 10:11am Dec 26, 2019 10:27am | Edited Dec 27, 2019 10:11am
- Joined Dec 2015 | Status: Trader | 1,505 Posts
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- #194
- Dec 30, 2019 9:59am Dec 30, 2019 9:59am
- Joined Dec 2015 | Status: Trader | 1,505 Posts
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- #196
- Dec 30, 2019 11:46am Dec 30, 2019 11:46am
- Joined Dec 2015 | Status: Trader | 1,505 Posts
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- #198
- Dec 31, 2019 7:36am Dec 31, 2019 7:36am
- Joined Dec 2015 | Status: Trader | 1,505 Posts
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- #200
- Dec 31, 2019 9:19am Dec 31, 2019 9:19am
- Joined Dec 2015 | Status: Trader | 1,505 Posts
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