UK PM Johnson: Proposals Do Not Deliver Everything We Would Have Wished, Represent Compromise | Metals Mine
Added at 5:44am
Added at 5:45am
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RossEdwards
Oct 3, 2019 6:43am
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Anyone ask where this new proposal came from?
Simple.
When new PM Johnson threw out 20+ members of his own party for voting against him, the continued support of the DUP for the Conservative government became irrelevant. So suddenly the DUP became flexible and this whole New "Final" proposal and (Ultimatum ) from BJs zombie government is based on their new found "concessions".
Time British voters figured that getting Brexit Done , without creating serious damage to their mainland economy or being forced into a patently stupid No-Deal disruptive outcome.. lies with throwing the DUP under the bus and doing a deal that puts the Economic border down the Irish Sea, and retains the Nation Border of the United Kingdom unchanged. Two Systems - One Country.

Traders remember that outcome of this will end in one of two very different levels for GBP in the next months.
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verv
Oct 3, 2019 6:48am
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Quoting RossEdwards
Anyone ask where this new proposal came from? Simple. When new PM Johnson threw out 20+ members of his own party for voting against him, the continued support of the DUP for the Conservative government became irrelevant. So suddenly the DUP became flexible and this whole New "Final" proposal and (Ultimatum ) from BJs zombie government is based on their new found "concessions". Time British voters figured that getting Brexit Done , without creating serious damage to their mainland economy or being forced into a patently...
Not true Cliff.

Paragraph 50 of the 2017 Joint Report, that went missing in action in the Withdrawal Agreement, for your pleasure:

"50. In the absence of agreed solutions, as set out in the previous paragraph, the United Kingdom will ensure that no new regulatory barriers develop between Northern Ireland and the rest of the United Kingdom, unless, consistent with the 1998 Agreement, the Northern Ireland Executive and Assembly agree that distinct arrangements are appropriate for Northern Ireland. In all circumstances, the United Kingdom will continue to ensure the same unfettered access for Northern Ireland's businesses to the whole of the United Kingdom internal market."

The EU and Ireland dropped this from the Withdrawal Agreement, despite agreeing to it in the 2017 Joint Report.

It is simply a reoccurrence of what the DUP asked for initially, except this time the backstop will not keep NI in the customs union.

All that is being asked is for the EU to honour the 2017 Joint Report.
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RossEdwards
Oct 3, 2019 9:34am
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Aint that the truth..

The truth that the British voters who have already indicated they couldn't give a fandango about NI, havent yet realised that is because of the DUP "Tail wagging the UK Dog" ...no NI .that Brexit with a Deal is not already DONE.

Time they woke up.Time they figured it out. Dont you think?
NI will be gone in 10-15 years anyway.
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verv
Oct 3, 2019 9:45am — Edited
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If NI wants to go, let it. Put a United Ireland to a public vote.

The Europhiles who never gave a rats ass about NI, only started caring when it was a stick to beat the UK with, dangling the 'threat to peace' for political leverage is scummy behaviour.

They say you can't have a border because terrorists might be terrorists, but no other government policy is decided on what terrorists might do so why should we start now?

The Europhiles have also consistently lied about what is and isn't in the GFA.
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nbfx
Oct 3, 2019 8:17am
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Quoting RossEdwards
Anyone ask where this new proposal came from? Simple. When new PM Johnson threw out 20+ members of his own party for voting against him, the continued support of the DUP for the Conservative government became irrelevant. So suddenly the DUP became flexible and this whole New "Final" proposal and (Ultimatum ) from BJs zombie government is based on their new found "concessions". Time British voters figured that getting Brexit Done , without creating serious damage to their mainland economy or being forced into a patently...
One nation two systems - I wonder where we've heard that before. Really seems to be working well I don't think...

Quoting verv
{quote} Not true Cliff. Paragraph 50 of the 2017 Joint Report, that went missing in action in the Withdrawal Agreement, for your pleasure: "50. In the absence of agreed solutions, as set out in the previous paragraph, the United Kingdom will ensure that no new regulatory barriers develop between Northern Ireland and the rest of the United Kingdom, unless, consistent with the 1998 Agreement, the Northern Ireland Executive and Assembly agree that distinct arrangements are appropriate for Northern Ireland. In all circumstances, the United Kingdom...
And that actually is a substantial difference that makes it more palatable for unionists. Als it potentally provides incentive to stormont to re-open and problems that closed it to be put aside for long enough for this issue to be openly debated and voted upon by those in NI. That could be a positive side-effect...
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RossEdwards
Oct 3, 2019 7:45am
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Quoting verv
{quote} t..... The EU and Ireland dropped this from the Withdrawal Agreement, despite agreeing to it in the 2017 Joint Report.....
NO. Total misrepresentation.
The UK government in the course of its 9 month further negotiations to conclude the Withdrawal Agreement, dropped this requirement. To suggest that the EU /Ireland dropped them is some sort of conspiratorial plot to "disappear" key elements in a final agreement is absurd and disingenuous..

Enough.. Right now Im busy with getting whats behind cables 1.267- breakout rally .. and getting in front of it.
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RossEdwards
Oct 3, 2019 8:57am — Edited
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My dear @verv, you are on my ignore list .. however I make exception having had my attention drawn to your comment on my earlier post.

Do you really think I give a damn whether it was May or BJ that changed this or that, in the joint Agreement December 2017 or that you are aggrieved, or see it as a betrayal to whatever your personal political allegiances lie towards DUP/Orangeism or Loyalism.? Absurd.

I just point out here for the benefit of fellow traders that its preposterous that you try to BLAME EU/Irish negotiators for what your political buddies in the May government negotiated away..
Do you think any of the traders here give a flying fandango? Or can see in what way this kind of exchange is pertinent to traders or markets?

Never kid a kid.. Theres a bigger game afoot here.. an attempt to subvert and rewrite the GFA which the DUP were the ONLY party in 1998 who refused to sign off on.
I just wonder when the ordinary Britisher who wants a smooth Brexit with a deal, realises just how the DUP are and have delayed, subverted and screwed that otherwise simple process and how they are continuing with BJs support to do just that.

Now can we get back to trade related dialogue and look at the 1.24 rally I now see printing.
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verv
Oct 3, 2019 8:04am
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Quoting RossEdwards
{quote} NO. Total misrepresentation. The UK government in the course of its 9 month further negotiations to conclude the Withdrawal Agreement, dropped this requirement. To suggest that the EU /Ireland dropped them is some sort of conspiratorial plot to "disappear" key elements in a final agreement is absurd and disingenuous.. Enough.. Right now Im busy with getting whats behind cables 1.267- breakout rally .. and getting in front of it.
It's not a total misrepresentation at all.

Mrs May dropped Paragraph 50 which would have gave Stormont control over the implementation of the backstop at the insistence of the Irish government and the EU. From Jan 2019 "Varadkar rejects veto for Stormont on backstop" - https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/v...stop-26t8mcsnx

Mrs May did this behind the back of the Brexit department, with David Davis and Dominic Raab resigning at the backstop proposal which made its way into the withdrawal agreement.

The DUP have been calling for Paragraph 50 to be any part of backstop arrangements and Boris reintroduced that:
http://www.mydup.com/news/article/st...unionist-party

Contrary to what you claimed, it was May who sold the DUP out, not Boris.

Get your facts right Cliff.
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verv
Oct 3, 2019 8:12am
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And for all this guff from Simon Coveney about a Stormont veto being contrary to the GFA, that's a load of rubbish.

A veto mechanism was deliberately, and specifically written into the GFA such that contentious issues must proceed on a cross-community basis.


Quote
Safeguards

(d) arrangements to ensure key decisions are taken on a cross-community basis;

(i) either parallel consent, i.e. a majority of those members present and voting, including a majority of the unionist and nationalist designations present and voting;

(ii) or a weighted majority (60%) of members present and voting, including at least 40% of each of the nationalist and unionist designations present and voting.

Key decisions requiring cross-community support will be designated in advance, including election of the Chair of the Assembly, the First Minister and Deputy First Minister, standing orders and budget allocations. In other cases such decisions could be triggered by a petition of concern brought by a significant minority of Assembly members (30/108).

(e) an Equality Commission to monitor a statutory obligation to promote equality of opportunity in specified areas and parity of esteem between the two main communities, and to investigate individual complaints against public bodies.

Have current members of the Irish Government even read the GFA?
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verv
Oct 3, 2019 9:17am
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Quoting RossEdwards
My dear chap, do you really think I give a damn whether it was May or BJ that changed this or that, in the joint Agreement December 2017 or that you are agrieved, or see it as a betrayal to whatever your personal political allegiances lie towards DUP/Orangeism or Loyalism.? I just point out here for the benefit of fellow traders that its preposterous that you try to BLAME EU/Irish negotiators for what your political buddies in the May government negotiated away.. Do you think any of the traders here give a flying fandango? Or can see what way this...
I take pleasure in telling you what you got wrong.

In terms of sequence, it matters to have things in the correct order - the Stormont veto in the Joint Report was not acceptable to the EU.

These things matter when it comes to picking apart bogus narratives.
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nbfx
Oct 3, 2019 9:43am
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Quoting RossEdwards
Aint that the truth.. The truth that the British voters who have already indicated they couldn't give a fandango about NI, havent yet realised that is because of the DUP "Tail wagging the UK Dog" ...no NI .that Brexit with a Deal is not already DONE. Time they woke up.Time they figured it out. Dont you think? NI will be gone in 10-15 years anyway.
Pretty much on the nail and "Oh the Irony"...
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nbfx
Oct 3, 2019 10:11am
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Quoting verv
If NI wants to go, let it. Put a United Ireland to a public vote. The Europhiles who never gave a rats ass about NI only started caring when it was a stick to beat the UK with, dangling the 'threat to peace' for political leverage is scummy behaviour. They say you can't have a border because terrorists might be terrorists, but no other government policy is decided on what terrorists might do so why should we start now? The Europhiles have also consistently lied about what is and isn't in the GFA.
Yep - that's also on the nail.

Which leaves us all in a very peculiar situation...
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