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Flying Dutchman

  • #801
  • Feb 16, 2022 3:31pm Feb 16, 2022 3:31pm
Quoting ohitsyou
{quote} Hi RickM -- okay, the fish have waited this long I guess they can wait a bit longer -- but just for you... I'm not sure if you are addressing my subscription of how/why the market behaves as it does or whether you are commenting on your subscription. I'll assume you were addressing me and use that as an excuse to further clarify. I do not trade volume -- real, tick, imaginary, chocolate, whatever. That's not to say the way you use it can 't be used as an edge for trading. Of course it can and I envy your skills. I only brought up volume...
Hi ohitsyou

Does volume affect price ? Yes or No

The answer is of course No

Volume is only executed market orders.
Price is at mercy to manipulated liquidity by big players which is used to absorb price movement by placing large funds on the market to block movement, or by removing liquidity to create gaps and therefore an imbalance on the order books and a directional move at no expense..

If only fishing was this easy.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
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Trading thin liquidity at the boundary of the charts
  • #802
  • Feb 16, 2022 4:23pm Feb 16, 2022 4:23pm
Quoting bilal1947
There are people who only believes in making fun of others not in their league or even to finish/kill them if possible would be great is not so wise as i think. stay blessed regards bilal
Hi Bilal, there's reason why people react strongly to certain opinion. Some opinion, if it were true, does invalidate certain trading methodology in some way. That's the problem.
Know what you trade
  • #803
  • Feb 16, 2022 5:22pm Feb 16, 2022 5:22pm
It’s always interesting for me to read everyone’s opinion & perspectives, regarding the machinations of forex.

If the truth be known (and it can’t, ever) by us lay-folk who are trading in “someone else’s world”.

That we ALL most likely have just the right amount of TRUTH necessary, for ourselves, to trade in these markets.
  • #804
  • Feb 16, 2022 5:24pm Feb 16, 2022 5:24pm
I have no doubts in my mind, lol, that the markets we trade have set (daily/weekly) “parameters of expansion”
that cannot be busted during the retail frenzy periods, while those parameters can be tested though, top & bottom, yes.


Those parameters can be mathematically examined, I believe, and also approximated (pretty much to the dot).


Well plus or minus a percentage, and all Accountants will understand my meaning here.

Pure Mathematicians naturally will jack up at my suggestion, and hold that no maths can or should be approximated.

While any Economists watching out there will only smile & just merely adjust their own approx-imisations, to suit the moment
(just joking economists, sorry - it’s an old joke I read somewhere).


The fact of the matter remains that we each hold so dearly to OUR paradigms
that we cannot even contemplate that some other trader, with a differing methodology to OURS,
can ALSO trade with success within the motions of price changes on our forex charts.

I reckon this is because we all will all have our own set “section / area of the footy field” where we ONLY play or trade.
And we have OUR own section nailed - enough for our own liking.
It’s works for us, so why (we might think) can’t our way it be right for EVERYBODY else.

Well trading, AND LIFE, don’t really work that way.
  • #805
  • Feb 16, 2022 6:33pm Feb 16, 2022 6:33pm
Quoting TimeTells
It’s works for us, so why (we might think) can’t our way it be right for EVERYBODY else. Well trading, AND LIFE, don’t really work that way.
When I read FF, I notice this happen all the time. I just wonder why.
Know what you trade
  • #806
  • Edited 7:22pm Feb 16, 2022 6:39pm | Edited 7:22pm
Quoting bilal1947
{quote} When a husband and wife or all the kids can live with different opinions in the same house.... we are still far, that's the beauty of life that we respect each others understanding and opinions yet we don't hate each other and live peacefully respecting and uplifting. There are people who only believes in making fun of others not in their league or even to finish/kill them if possible would be great is not so wise as i think. stay blessed regards bilal
Are you saying that I hated on you? In my post I said I liked you guys and admire you. But because the questions I've asked can't be conveniently answered when you are wedded to a particular story then I'm a hater. This is why people drift away from FF. Everything is relative -- the earth revolves around the sun if you claim it. No such thing as gravity -- our sticky shoes keep us glued to the ground. Where can you even begin to come to terms with such a complex system as forex or discuss deeper topics when it can't be decided whether the cart pulls the horse or the other way around. The discussions remain superficial and repeat over and over in different threads.
  • #807
  • Edited 7:23pm Feb 16, 2022 6:49pm | Edited 7:23pm
Quoting RickM
{quote} Hi ohitsyou Does volume affect price ? Yes or No The answer is of course No Volume is only executed market orders. Price is at mercy to manipulated liquidity by big players which is used to absorb price movement by placing large funds on the market to block movement, or by removing liquidity to create gaps and therefore an imbalance on the order books and a directional move at no expense.. If only fishing was this easy. {image}
Hello RickM -- manipulation is part of the system. It's one of the feedback mechanisms. Stock prices are manipulated. Your relationship with your wife is manipulated. The way I drive to work is manipulated. The way I play basketball to win is manipulated. But manipulation does not extrapolate to master algo.

If price is set by a master algo then nothing prevents price from imploding to zero or exploding to infinity. There are boundaries. Where do the boundaries come from?

Everything is a system. A system persists as long as the metric remains within bounds. If the bounds are arbitrary or are set in advance (and don't adjust to events in real-time) then the system will fail. Anything that can make adjustment to its current state is a system and not a master algo.

And as for whether volume affects price -- of course it does. Currently the volume for OIY/USD is zero. The initial price was 1810 -- what do you think the price will be tomorrow. Have you ever heard of an IPO? Since man first began bartering, funds exchange hands. Unbelievable... Mind blowing...
  • #808
  • Feb 16, 2022 6:49pm Feb 16, 2022 6:49pm
Quoting ohitsyou
Where can you even begin to come to terms with such a complex system as forex or discuss deeper topics when it can't be decided whether the cart pulls the horse or the other way around. The discussions remain superficial and repeat over and over in different threads.
Hi OIY, nice analogy. There's the cart, horse and cart driver - a system.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
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Know what you trade
  • #809
  • Edited 7:26pm Feb 16, 2022 6:56pm | Edited 7:26pm
I'm telling you, reading the comments makes me realise how closely we are linked to the market.

We get a little chat, consolidation, all in agreement then one drifts away, says something but recovers back into consolidation.
Someone takes it the wrong way, gets tetchy and we get a major blowup in a completely different direction, and heads off at a fast pace usually on a different tangent.
Once the steam has blown out we usually get a return back to normality with maybe a small remark that takes us back towards the steam.
A couple of days or hours depending on one's nerves, all is good, we're all in agreement, we chat until the next consolidation and the cycle of life, Forex Factory or the market starts all over again......

You're all welcome..

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  • #810
  • Feb 16, 2022 7:01pm Feb 16, 2022 7:01pm
Quoting TimeTells
It’s always interesting for me to read everyone’s opinion & perspectives, regarding the machinations of forex. If the truth be known (and it can’t, ever) by us lay-folk who are trading in “someone else’s world”. That we ALL most likely have just the right amount of TRUTH necessary, for ourselves, to trade in these markets.
TT -- you are such a gentleman...

But when you invoke "truth" I can't hold back. Truth isn't relative. I mean, in the English language we have expressions like "what's true for me", but that really isn't "truth". That's more like a preference.

If you are trying to solve a problem or understand a complicated topic there has to be some foundation upon which you can add your lego blocks. If "truth" is relative, then all there is is sand. Why even bother discussing anything when there is zero probability of answering a question. When people claim that "truth" is relative I can only conclude they really aren't interested in solving the problem. And that's fine -- many of us are perfectly content where we are and have no desire to explore what's beyond the fence that protects the Garden of Eden.
  • #811
  • Feb 16, 2022 7:11pm Feb 16, 2022 7:11pm
Quoting ohitsyou
{quote}
Truth isn't relative.
And that's fine -- many of us are perfectly content where we are and have no desire to explore what's beyond the fence that protects the Garden of Eden.

Cheers OIY,
I enjoy reading your searches & findings in forex,
and also enjoy your occasional meltdowns as I respect where they might come from.

NOW

Truth isn't relative. That's for sure.
While Perspective IS relative.
AND,
and this is the problem for me,

At what point do we put a (horizontal line) UNDER truth and say we've nailed it.

Many truths that WERE, at a long past "point in time", have in time been refuted/adjusted. As MORE information came to light.
So we can have OUR truths yes, which guide us along. As well as our perspectives. But best we all keep an open mind for what we might find out tomorrow.
  • #812
  • Feb 16, 2022 7:15pm Feb 16, 2022 7:15pm
I can enjoyably live with all our thread bickerings & pretences of TOTAL comprehension of our
variable Forex market operations (within its own imho SET parameter operations)


Maybe we don’t thank each other for all the contributions, of everyone, especially when they are often contrary or emotion evoking,
which make up a larger paradigm of forex for us all.


I enjoy reading all the posts as I choose to HEAR what I reckon each trader is posting & saying,
in that THEY have their understanding of THEIR PART OF THE TRADING SCREEN NAILED.


So well done to all who comprehend our market and its machinations, at whatever personal level that is.


Congrats to those who can use indication-s (ma’s, ea’s, lines, both horizontal AND curly lol, neutral and/or coloured too lol)
Well done to those who find an opportunity window to maximise their specific volume trading
Kudos to the fundamental traders of THE real world happenings, outside of our (imho segregated) retail Forex world
And praise to discretionary magicians-tradicians out there who somehow see all the happenings, happen
PLUS well done, to
Any other trader who knows what they know, yet cannot quite switch others over to THEIR way of thinking
& are quite content with what they have achieved.


We all, pretty much, have a piece of the pie, which we could enjoy in peace and harmony with each other.

Like that will ever happen lol,

in such tense social media situations, based usually on a cocophany of expression
which I LOVE reading here daily if I have a moment to myself .


all the best folks, keep the banter and digressions rollings,
Forex Factory might just need a brand new page on each thread turned,
to jag a little more advertising revenue to provide US this HOME where we can, .... express.
  • #813
  • Feb 16, 2022 7:37pm Feb 16, 2022 7:37pm
Quoting TimeTells
{quote} Cheers OIY, I enjoy reading your searches & findings in forex, and also enjoy your occasional meltdowns as I respect where they might come from. NOW Truth isn't relative. That's for sure. While Perspective IS relative. AND, and this is the problem for me, At what point do we put a (horizontal line) UNDER truth and say we've nailed it. Many truths that WERE, at a long past "point in time", have in time been refuted/adjusted. As MORE information came to light. So we can have OUR truths yes, which guide us along. As well as our perspectives....
Hello TT -- yes, that is correct -- the distinction between truth and preference. And, of course, "truths" can change in time. But we exist now. There may come a time when the earth isn't flat -- but for now it is.

And when discussing a hot topic you can see how important it is to articulate exactly what you mean, or if you misspeak then correct it. For the most part I hear people using the word "truth" when they are, in fact, expressing a preference. I don't think people know the difference between truth and preference. In our minds we conflate preference with "truth". I think that is because we've grown spoiled and our minds have us convinced we know more than what we really do.

And preferences are fine -- but are basically useless and only serve as a distraction if the goal is to solve a problem or reach a consensus on a deeper topic. For shallow discussions -- sure, let's stick with preferences...
  • #814
  • Feb 16, 2022 7:57pm Feb 16, 2022 7:57pm
Quoting TimeTells
I can enjoyably live with all our thread bickerings & pretences of TOTAL comprehension of our variable Forex market operations (within its own imho SET parameter operations)
Hi TT -- you pushed a button -- my hat is off to you...

Yeah -- no doubt my posts come across to some as "total comprehension". But you should notice I don't get into the nitty-gritty details like RickM or BW or bilal1947 or others. I'm flying at 30,000 feet, so my view is anything but "total comprehension". My observation is the earth is round, which is consistent with other planets in our solar system. But then the predominant response is "no, the earth isn't round -- what about mountains and valleys?"

Everything around us that is not inanimate behaves as a system -- everything. Why in the world would anyone think that FX is different? And the best they can come up with is "master algo"? I understand that when we don't understand something we tend to create a story to make it less scary. That's the left-side of our brain -- it hates not knowing what's coming next. The right-side of our brain is fine with exploring. This is how we are wired -- seriously.

A system is describable -- hence, there is a possibility to better understand it. "Master algo" is not understandable -- to date, it's just hand-waving. I don't know what my motivation for sharing this "system" perspective was. I don't even think it would make anyone a better trader. However, if your trading journey isn't already carved in stone and if you are able and inclined to view the FX ecosystem from 30,000 feet, then maybe down the road some benefit will come from it.
  • #815
  • Feb 16, 2022 7:58pm Feb 16, 2022 7:58pm
Quoting ohitsyou
And preferences are fine -- but are basically useless and only serve as a distraction if the goal is to solve a problem or reach a consensus on a deeper topic. For shallow discussions -- sure, let's stick with preferences...
Perhaps an industry insider can tell us the "truth" about the system of cart, horse, cart driver and roads.
Know what you trade
  • #816
  • Feb 16, 2022 8:07pm Feb 16, 2022 8:07pm
As I wrote earlier, a "system" has 3 elements: metric, sensor(s), feedback mechanism(s). These can be concrete or abstract. A few examples:

1. Guided missile:
metric: current location
sensor: wind velocity
feedback: wing position

2. Relation with your wife:
metric: her hurt feelings
sensor: she rolls her eyes
feedback: flowers

3. FX
metric: price
sensor: indicator
feedback: BUY or SELL trading / order desk (funds exchanging hands -- either real, or abstract)
  • #817
  • Feb 16, 2022 8:09pm Feb 16, 2022 8:09pm
The very first Forex Market.

Inserted Video
  • #818
  • Feb 16, 2022 8:19pm Feb 16, 2022 8:19pm
Quoting BWilliam
{quote} Perhaps an industry insider can tell us the "truth" about the system of cart, horse, cart driver and roads.

The Algo is the Cart Driver, the traders are the cart at the rear, the market is the horse and 95% are on a road to nowhere!!
  • #819
  • Feb 16, 2022 8:23pm Feb 16, 2022 8:23pm
Quoting moodybot
The very first Forex Market. https://youtu.be/1tvla70hy9o
Very interesting...
  • #820
  • Feb 16, 2022 8:28pm Feb 16, 2022 8:28pm
Quoting moodybot
{quote} The Algo is the Cart Driver, the traders are the cart at the rear, the market is the horse and 95% are on a road to nowhere!!
The system:

metric: current location on the trail (or ultimate destination)
sensor: position of the cart on the trail (optimal is middle of the trail)
feedback: pulling on the horse's reigns

Quoting moodybot
The Algo is the Cart Driver
You mean his brain? Okay, say it was. The master algoists' goal is to reverse-engineer the cart driver's brain?

When viewed as a "system" there is no need for a retail trader to worry about what the market's move might be in the future. The system is much too complex. Instead, you trade what you see now. That's not to say there aren't clues. A good discretionary trader is like a good detective.
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