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  • #17,301
  • Jun 30, 2023 12:26pm Jun 30, 2023 12:26pm
Quoting sampat
{quote} Where did you get that screenshot, which telegram or fb group? E8 paid around 80K to one trader so not sure how they decide to grand or deny payouts.
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  • #17,302
  • Jun 30, 2023 12:36pm Jun 30, 2023 12:36pm
Quoting Nsak3y
{quote}-One would think so. But cheaters and criminals are often not too bright. I cannot speak about whether or not E8's claims are true or false, but if true, then it could be that he was already banned from other firms, or, that E8 offers something that other firms do not. Or, he's just not too bright.
Unfortunately I cannot believe a word what a prop firm is saying without proper evidence. Traders might not be saints but you need to keep in mind that when a prop firm denies payment to a highly profitable trader, in most the denied payment is directly more profits to them. There is no limit to greed in this world and definitively not in the forex world.
  • #17,303
  • Jun 30, 2023 1:11pm Jun 30, 2023 1:11pm
Quoting TraderTero
Traders might not be saints but you need to keep in mind that when a prop firm denies payment to a highly profitable trader, in most the denied payment is directly more profits to them. There is no limit to greed in this world and definitively not in the forex world.
-You are preaching to the choir, my friend. It may not always be the case, but we usually try to be objective here and investigate all sides.

As you say, though, it is not always easy or even possible to make a proper judgement call. Sometimes, firms can only disclose so much due to legal/privacy reasons. But we are fully aware that some firms may just be trying to cheat traders. In fact, this is probably the first thing that comes to mind in most cases.

Payout denials are a serious topic for traders. We do take them very seriously here. But we also want to be very sure about any claims before making judgement calls about an established firm. It can be difficult to do sometimes.

Some firms may just have to be placed on a watch list of sorts to ensure that no repeat offenses occur. For now, it is up to us traders to keep these firms accountable. In order to do that properly, we must remain objective and keep an open mind.
  • #17,304
  • Jun 30, 2023 2:00pm Jun 30, 2023 2:00pm
Quoting Capablanca
This shows what Angelo from TFT think it's important {image}
He missed the relative dd and 3% daily on his chart there
  • #17,305
  • Jun 30, 2023 2:01pm Jun 30, 2023 2:01pm
Quoting TraderTero
{quote} Unfortunately I cannot believe a word what a prop firm is saying without proper evidence. Traders might not be saints but you need to keep in mind that when a prop firm denies payment to a highly profitable trader, in most the denied payment is directly more profits to them. There is no limit to greed in this world and definitively not in the forex world.
I dont believe a single word of anyone in forex man. Traders have so much ego and lie/cheat/steal all the time. Its really a chicken and egg scenario. The traders are abhorrent, the brokers/props are abhorrent.
  • #17,306
  • Jun 30, 2023 2:25pm Jun 30, 2023 2:25pm
Quoting TraderTero
{quote} Where you see that? I don't see any exactly the same trades. Only one trade closed at the same time. Indian trader was accused of copy trading, not hedging.
Thats even worse what proof do they have for copy (unless they are using public copiers)
  • #17,307
  • Jun 30, 2023 2:28pm Jun 30, 2023 2:28pm
Quoting Takisd
{quote} I dont believe a single word of anyone in forex man. Traders have so much ego and lie/cheat/steal all the time. Its really a chicken and egg scenario. The traders are abhorrent, the brokers/props are abhorrent.
Individual traders have always a weaker position which exposes them for injustices. Traders from certain poorer countries also seem to be more often targeted. Based on the evidences I have seen props posting for payment denials, I have a gut feeling that maybe half of the denials are not justified but instead related to the trader being too profitable and the prop just wanting to get rid of the client.
  • #17,308
  • Jun 30, 2023 2:31pm Jun 30, 2023 2:31pm
Quoting TraderTero
{quote} Individual traders have always a weaker position which exposes them for injustices. Traders from certain poorer countries also seem to be more often targeted. Based on the evidences I have seen props posting for payment denials, I have a gut feeling that maybe half of the denials are not justified but instead related to the trader being too profitable and the prop just wanting to get rid of the client.
I think we will never know the truth because traders and brokers/props have conflicting interests.

Traders think their life is going to be solved by a prop account, props think their life is going to be solved by failing traders. Its literally a circumstance of, eat the cake whilst its available and screw the rest. Look at all these failed trader instagrammers now running prop firms. Then look at the behavior of traders who have a prop firm account on social media.

They are the same person. Neither is more innocent than the other.
  • #17,309
  • Jun 30, 2023 2:32pm Jun 30, 2023 2:32pm
Quoting Nsak3y
{quote}-You are preaching to the choir, my friend. It may not always be the case, but we usually try to be objective here and investigate all sides. As you say, though, it is not always easy or even possible to make a proper judgement call. Sometimes, firms can only disclose so much due to legal/privacy reasons. But we are fully aware that some firms may just be trying to cheat traders. In fact, this is probably the first thing that comes to mind in most cases. Payout denials are a serious topic for traders. We do take them very seriously here....
The firms definitely need to be accountable. Especially when it comes to denying payouts to traders who are not cheating. Someone needs to establish a forum where both sides of denied payouts can be seen. I understand the firms not wanting to pay cheaters, but denying payouts without evidence cannot happen. More of a reason to avoid the firms with discretionary rules which they may interpret any way they wish.
Has anyone seen a response from E8 on this? They seem to be pretty credible.
  • #17,310
  • Jun 30, 2023 2:36pm Jun 30, 2023 2:36pm
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} The firms definitely need to be accountable. Especially when it comes to denying payouts to traders who are not cheating. Someone needs to establish a forum where both sides of denied payouts can be seen. I understand the firms not wanting to pay cheaters, but denying payouts without evidence cannot happen. More of a reason to avoid the firms with discretionary rules which they may interpret any way they wish. Has anyone seen a response from E8 on this? They seem to be pretty credible.
Never fear, Angelo and blake are creating just that. No biased of course.
  • #17,311
  • Jun 30, 2023 2:48pm Jun 30, 2023 2:48pm
Quoting Takisd
{quote} Never fear, Angelo and blake are creating just that. No biased of course.
I am wondering why blake created separate prop firm https://www.smartproptrader.com when he is active owner/founder of TFT
  • #17,312
  • Jun 30, 2023 2:51pm Jun 30, 2023 2:51pm
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} The firms definitely need to be accountable. Especially when it comes to denying payouts to traders who are not cheating. Someone needs to establish a forum where both sides of denied payouts can be seen. I understand the firms not wanting to pay cheaters, but denying payouts without evidence cannot happen. More of a reason to avoid the firms with discretionary rules which they may interpret any way they wish. Has anyone seen a response from E8 on this? They seem to be pretty credible.
When things get public they start to take this stand:
"we can issue all profits, and then ban you from trading with us in the future but this is our attempt to be fair.
With our solution we still enable you to earn profits and get refunds etc. but also to show you a clear warning that we are watching you and we dont take it lightly.

If im not mistaken your profit share is pretty low its not about the money, its about the actions we believe you are taking which our against our rules..."

No evidence provided of anything. Blaming client for making this public etc. The normal stuff.
  • #17,313
  • Jun 30, 2023 2:52pm Jun 30, 2023 2:52pm
Quoting sampat
{quote} I am wondering why blake created separate prop firm https://www.smartproptrader.com when he is active owner/founder of TFT
TFT owns smartprop, bespoke maven i think? a few of them i think 6 total or 7. Myfundedfx is trying to do the same now and lying about it as if he is some angel free advisor or something.

Its smart but also dodgy, because the purpose of doing this is so you can experience the hyperbolic growth more regularly and keep the flow of new funds alive.
  • #17,314
  • Jun 30, 2023 4:24pm Jun 30, 2023 4:24pm
Quoting sampat
{quote} I am wondering why blake created separate prop firm https://www.smartproptrader.com when he is active owner/founder of TFT
He has several......ment funding is one, not sure of the others.
  • #17,315
  • Jun 30, 2023 4:40pm Jun 30, 2023 4:40pm
Quoting pipmaster77
He has several......ment funding is one, not sure of the others.
-The lack of proper disclosure in this space is troubling.
  • #17,316
  • Jun 30, 2023 4:46pm Jun 30, 2023 4:46pm
Quoting Nsak3y
{quote}-The lack of proper disclosure in this space is troubling.
they are openly bragging about it now as a weird flex.
  • #17,317
  • Jun 30, 2023 4:47pm Jun 30, 2023 4:47pm
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} He has several......ment funding is one, not sure of the others.
I thought it was Anton Calmes.
  • #17,318
  • Jun 30, 2023 5:00pm Jun 30, 2023 5:00pm
Quoting TraderTero
When things get public they start to take this stand: "we can issue all profits, and then ban you from trading with us in the future but this is our attempt to be fair. ......"
-It does not seem so unreasonable.

Most firms have easy-out terms, allowing them to terminate the relationship and/or refuse payout for any reasoning whatsoever. As long as they honor any refund policy that they may have in place, then traders may have little-to-no recourse in such situations.

That being said, whether or not such terms are enforceable is another matter. But without proper regulatory enforcement, it may be difficult to force their hand, especially when dealing with a foreign entity. In most cases, the best that we can try to do is to hold these firms accountable ourselves (and issue charge-backs when necessary).

From FTMO T&C:

Quote
You also acknowledge that the funds provided to you for demo trading are fictitious and that you have no right to possess those fictitious funds beyond the scope of their use within the Services, and in particular that they may not be used for any actual trading and that you are not entitled to the payment of those funds. Unless expressly agreed otherwise, you will not be paid any remuneration or profits based on the results of your simulated trading, nor will you be required to pay any losses.
  • #17,319
  • Jun 30, 2023 5:09pm Jun 30, 2023 5:09pm
Quoting Takisd
they are openly bragging about it now as a weird flex.
-Maybe big money brings big confidence, especially when you have expensive lawyers telling you that you are untouchable.
  • #17,320
  • Jun 30, 2023 5:12pm Jun 30, 2023 5:12pm
Quoting Nsak3y
{quote}-Maybe big money brings big confidence, especially when you have expensive lawyers telling you that you are untouchable.
It is my impression of Angelo rn. He seems to have gone off the spectrum with his arrogance. Talking about how he beats everyone to his ideas even if he publicly states them and stuff. Weird ass flex's and no solid FX knowledge.
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