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  • #1,581
  • Jun 17, 2021 1:56am Jun 17, 2021 1:56am
Quoting Simply-Me
{quote} I think none,because to trade some else money in most countries will required some kind of licence and it might be regulated.
Exactly right. At the moment I think the only firm that may not be on demo is 5ers because they are based in Israel. But I cant confirm.

With most fund providers you are on demo after you pass evaluation and therefore your "prop" firm is in the business of collecting fees, not funding traders. The model relies heavily on the fact that most will end up failing, so the big pay-outs are highly unlikely. But of course eventually they do and the house of cards collapses.

It's good to get funded, but I think it is wise to be very selective. Dont waste your time or money.

Question, who regulates FTMO? The regulator will be able to tell you if they are licensed for real accounts. That would be good to know.
  • #1,582
  • Edited 2:37am Jun 17, 2021 2:15am | Edited 2:37am
Quoting Simply-Me
I've read from some prop firm (don;t remember which one),that traders are getting paid for their results in training a they somehow copy trades i real market,but who knows.
copy trading might be a work-around

I think it's important to know how profitable traders are paid by these providers
is it fees, copy trading, live trading?....if its fees its not sustainable
  • #1,583
  • Edited 2:50am Jun 17, 2021 2:16am | Edited 2:50am
Quoting Le.Metier
{quote} Given the FT CEO has admitted everyone is on demo and goes no where near the real market, how will that work if some of the FT traders get really good at what they do? I dont see any of these demo trading companies being sustainable into the future. Ponzi schemes ALWAYS collapse. A worthwhile metric for the front page on this thread: accounts are live/ not live after successful completion of the evaluation. Is there a way to independently determine that?
None of the regular challenge model providers have ever claimed to hand you a Live trading account. They have all reiterated repeatedly that successful Traders are provided with a Demo account with a balance that corresponds with the package they paid for. Furthermore, trades are said to be copied from the demo accounts of successful Traders (some or all) onto company owned Live accounts.

Now, there is no way to confirm that, but even Funding Talent which you referenced have also said they hedge their business by copying selected Traders. I would hope this is the case with the rest.

Truth is that there is no way of knowing for sure either if firms like 5ers, Lux, Blu or MFF (direct Funding) really provide you with a Live account but of course it seems more appealing than seeing the demo tag on your "funded accounts ".

To the best of my knowledge only Topstep give an actual live account, but don't quote me on that.

Bottom line is that if you can make money trading, you will make good money trading with *Some of them.
  • #1,584
  • Jun 17, 2021 2:16am Jun 17, 2021 2:16am
Quoting Koop
{quote} Wait, What? They certify you if you successfully pass or what?
As I understand it, when you've established a long enough track record with them, they'll submit it for auditing to KPMG so that instead of a MyFXBook link, you can use that for bragging rights.
Amor Fati--F. Nietzsche
  • #1,585
  • Jun 17, 2021 2:18am Jun 17, 2021 2:18am
Quoting Koop
{quote} None of the regular challenge model providers have ever claimed to hand you a Live trading account. They have all reiterated repeatedly that successful Traders are provided with a Demo account with a balance that corresponds with the package they paid for. Furthermore, trades are said to be copied from the demo accounts of successful Traders (some or all) onto company owned Live accounts. Now, there is no way to confirm that, but even Funding Talent which you referenced have also said they hedge their business by copying selected Traders....
my reply is the post above yours
  • #1,586
  • Jun 17, 2021 2:24am Jun 17, 2021 2:24am
Quoting dr_who
Most of the rest I really think are scams, or the next best thing and everyone would be wise taking everything they say with a pinch of salt. In fact I'd steer clear of any paid for prop firm. Being an AP is a longterm practice so why rush it with the much greater probability of being scammed ?

breath of fresh air

Thanks!
  • #1,587
  • Jun 17, 2021 2:45am Jun 17, 2021 2:45am
Quoting Koop
you will make good money trading with any of them.
not any of them
  • #1,588
  • Edited 3:35am Jun 17, 2021 2:48am | Edited 3:35am
Quoting dr_who
First off, great thread, so a big shout out to Mastermind for starting it. I've read the whole lot (skimmed quite a bit later on) but in reality much of it is repetitive and circular. I come to trading from a gambling background since the 70s (blackjack, roulette (VB) and Betfair) though I don't consider myself a gambler but an Advantage Player (AP), having gained a significant advantage in all areas I continued with. I'm therefore quite used to the portrayal of scams as profitable systems as those areas are rife with them to the extreme. I've also...
I don't know how much everyone else has lost since they started trading Live but I would estimate mine to be over $20,000 with around $8,000 being invested capital and the 12k being profits realized and lost.

Looking at that, I have very little problems risking another $155 -$1000 considering the enormous potential rewards that I could generate (if the firm is reputable enough in terms of payment), which would make my risk seem almost inconsequential, especially if i have done my due diligence and have seen substantial proof that a firms meets it's payment obligations.

Worst scenario, i make enough money to recover my initial risk and maybe a little extra "before the firm crashes).
Even If after everything I get "scammed" of $300, I'd probably just sum it up as another loss taken during a trade which could have made me good profit but turned around and hit my Stop.

Quoting Le.Metier
{quote} not any of them
Pardon me. *Some.
  • #1,589
  • Jun 17, 2021 2:54am Jun 17, 2021 2:54am
Quoting doji
{quote} As I understand it, when you've established a long enough track record with them, they'll submit it for auditing to KPMG so that instead of a MyFXBook link, you can use that for bragging rights.
Lol wow, that sounds interesting.
Lux does have a regulated parent company that has a real life prop firm or fund management arm so I would believe they are levels above others in terms of professionalism and standards.
  • #1,590
  • Jun 17, 2021 3:14am Jun 17, 2021 3:14am
Quoting Koop
{quote}To the best of my knowledge only Topstep give an actual live account, but don't quote me on that.
err, you read my journal...
AxiSelect/Psyquation give actual live acct.
free to join too.
there is always, always another trade!!
  • #1,591
  • Jun 17, 2021 3:33am Jun 17, 2021 3:33am
Quoting profitfarmer
{quote} err, you read my journal... AxiSelect/Psyquation give actual live acct. free to join too.
Lol oh, I was talking only about the pay-to-play guys, where there could be a conflict of interest considering they also earn from failed challenges.
Of course Axiselect give live accounts.
  • #1,592
  • Jun 17, 2021 3:51am Jun 17, 2021 3:51am
Quoting Koop
{quote} I don't know how much everyone else has lost since they started trading Live but I would estimate mine to be over $20,000 with around $8,000 being invested capital and the 12k being profits realized and lost. Looking at that, I have very little problems risking another $155 -$1000 considering the enormous potential rewards that I could generate (if the firm is reputable enough in terms of payment), which would make my risk seem almost inconsequential, especially if i have done my due diligence and have seen substantial proof that a firms...

Interesting response. You obviously still feel you'll be a winner in the end and I applaud your optimism. I hope you get there but from your track record I doubt you will, especially if your losses have been accumulated over the longterm. My advice would be to do something else.
To be sure $155-$1k is pretty inconsequential compared to your trading losses but the point is you're likely to lose that money not because of your lack of skill but because you were never allowed to do anything else. That's the scam. I see many of these prop firms as ponzi schemes. There may be a couple that aren't but this thread doesn't appear to be full of regular traders that have gone through any of the schemes positively and are making a regular five or even four figure monthly return. Show me the money if they're out there.

And to make one correction: your worst case scenario is actually to continue to bleed money to schemes without ever having the opportunity to do anything else.

Have fun....
He was looking for the card so high and wild hed never need to deal another
  • #1,593
  • Jun 17, 2021 3:54am Jun 17, 2021 3:54am
Quoting pipmaster77
Mine, in no particular order... FTMO- have passed 2 challenges, have 200K in funding and can confirm they pay MFF- currently waiting for stage 2 credentials, great experience so far. Have talked with folks on the "inside". They improve every day and I am 99% certain they are looking long term 5%ers- this one will shock most coming from me. I cannot stand their standard model, but they probably have the best reputation of all. Looks like they've jumped through all the legal loopholes. I LOVE THE NEW MODEL, free eval, pay once you pass....$300 for...
Leverage 1:10, which is better than usual 1:6 there.
  • #1,594
  • Edited 4:43am Jun 17, 2021 4:19am | Edited 4:43am
Quoting dr_who
{quote} Interesting response. You obviously still feel you'll be a winner in the end and I applaud your optimism. I hope you get there but from your track record I doubt you will, especially if your losses have been accumulated over the longterm. My advice would be to do something else. To be sure $155-$1k is pretty inconsequential compared to your trading losses but the point is you're likely to lose that money not because of your lack of skill but because you were never allowed to do anything else. That's the scam. I see many of these prop firms...
Lol oh yeah, now that I read my initial response again, it seems like I'm implying ongoing losses.
I'm speaking of losses incurred over the course of learning the markets or how to actually trade.
I'm not taking into consideration the losses that have been recovered.. I'm talking flat out losses and accounts blown in the past.
The point was that almost every one of us has lost more than a few thousands over the earlier years of our journeys and some are still losing.
So shove that prescription to quit up your ass Dr.. Lol

In my opinion, the people who need to quit are those who fail to look at these opportunities in terms of Risk v. Potential rewards and instead just choose to blindly worry about all the "what ifs".
Every investment is a risk, nothing is 100%.


on a serious note though, it's your opinion if you think the cards are stacked against you by these firms for whatever reasons,
(maybe you don't think the targets or objectives are achievable), but that just what it is, your opinion.
That opinion then fuels your fears and doubts, but it doesn't in any way invalidate the experiences and proven accomplishments of others who have tried them and have good stories to tell.

To each his own my friend.
  • #1,595
  • Jun 17, 2021 4:49am Jun 17, 2021 4:49am
Quoting Koop
on a serious note though, it's your opinion if you think the cards are stacked against you by these firms for whatever reasons, (maybe you don't think the targets or objectives are achievable), but that just what it is, your opinion. That opinion then fuels your fears and doubts, but it doesn't in any way invalidate the experiences and proven accomplishments of others who have tried them and have good stories to tell. To each his own my friend.

Dr Who hasn’t told us why he is against the funders that have a fee. Perhaps he should clarify.
  • #1,596
  • Jun 17, 2021 5:26am Jun 17, 2021 5:26am
Quoting dr_who
First off, great thread, so a big shout out to Mastermind for starting it. I've read the whole lot (skimmed quite a bit later on) but in reality much of it is repetitive and circular. I come to trading from a gambling background since the 70s (blackjack, roulette (VB) and Betfair) though I don't consider myself a gambler but an Advantage Player (AP), having gained a significant advantage in all areas I continued with. I'm therefore quite used to the portrayal of scams as profitable systems as those areas are rife with them to the extreme. I've also...
Appreciate your comments.

Best way to think about any fee given to a 'Retail Prop Firm' is that it's risk money with a high probability of loss.

Some Props appear to have better odds than others initially but odds over the longer term are likely to change so much so that the trader will be disadvantaged.

To those traders that give it a go may you generate life changing profit.

Good trading,

Masterrmind .........
Master your Mind then Master your Trades
  • #1,597
  • Jun 17, 2021 6:06am Jun 17, 2021 6:06am
Quoting Le.Metier
{quote} Exactly right. At the moment I think the only firm that may not be on demo is 5ers because they are based in Israel. But I cant confirm. With most fund providers you are on demo after you pass evaluation and therefore your "prop" firm is in the business of collecting fees, not funding traders. The model relies heavily on the fact that most will end up failing, so the big pay-outs are highly unlikely. But of course eventually they do and the house of cards collapses. It's good to get funded, but I think it is wise to be very selective. Dont...
All these FTMO questions are available from either their website or YouTube channel.

Masterrmind ........
Master your Mind then Master your Trades
  • #1,598
  • Jun 17, 2021 6:31am Jun 17, 2021 6:31am
I passed Stage 1 evaluation @ MFF.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
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Intraday only.
  • #1,599
  • Jun 17, 2021 7:05am Jun 17, 2021 7:05am
Quoting Koop
{quote} Lol oh yeah, now that I read my initial response again, it seems like I'm implying ongoing losses. I'm speaking of losses incurred over the course of learning the markets or how to actually trade. I'm not taking into consideration the losses that have been recovered.. I'm talking flat out losses and accounts blown in the past. The point was that almost every one of us has lost more than a few thousands over the earlier years of our journeys and some are still losing. So shove that prescription to quit up your ass Dr.. Lol In my opinion,...

Well that's great if you're now regularly in profit and long may it continue. And if anyone is making a regular profit with a prop firm that charges up front, and a greater profit than they could trading on their own behalf with, say, ICM at 1:500, please make yourself heard. But so far there's been a dearth of them on this thread at least.

And the reason I'm cynical is a combination of the large number of obvious scams outlined on this thread and the fact that I haven't read anything from those making anything like a great profit - except of course the shills. And I'm a natural cynic about anyone charging for anything.

Meanwhile I'm taking a closer look at Darwinex, Alpari PAMM (I'm already a small scale MAMM for some friends) and Psyquation.
He was looking for the card so high and wild hed never need to deal another
  • #1,600
  • Jun 17, 2021 7:43am Jun 17, 2021 7:43am
Quoting Simply-Me
Guys and what do you say about this option? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-MDuzmLXXhA&t=625s
It's on PooTube, need I say more?
Always read Post #1
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