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  • #8,921
  • Jul 1, 2022 2:32am Jul 1, 2022 2:32am
The thing, Takisd, is that out of FTMO and MFF we can find objections in all firms. We can see your recent posts and there's not one that you would approve out of the big two (it's not a criticism).
In my case, as I'm not building a long term relationship with any of these guys, it's just trying to find the best ones for hit and run while I can.
And in that sole perspective TPT has been quite good (but as I already said before, I even made reasonable money with Funding Talent and, on top of that, got all my fees back).

I would say that for a long term relations people should ignore, basically, all of the others out of MFF and FTMO (and 5ers if they want that non sense direct funding).
  • #8,922
  • Jul 1, 2022 3:38am Jul 1, 2022 3:38am
Quoting Takisd
Unlimited capital? It almost feels like a pre-emptive rug pull. Stock up on users then run because you know you can't pay them.
-That is possible. They seem to be based in Australia. Not sure if that makes any difference. Looks like they have been around since 2020. They claim to currently have over 2800 funded traders.

Quoting Capablanca
I don't like the no limit of number of accounts. It's accumulating too much risk for a firm and half way for going downhill if the markets move widely and traders get lucky.
-Fair point. Forcing traders to trade the accounts separately can only mitigate so much, and that would have to be constantly monitored.

But again, this is all assuming that they are trading with real capital in the first place. I suppose that the point still stands, though. Even if we consider the statistics, I would not be surprised if a firm of this size and past history would just find some way to wiggle out of paying any good trader that wanted to throw a wrench into their operation.
  • #8,923
  • Jul 1, 2022 3:47am Jul 1, 2022 3:47am
Has anybody tried the CTI day traders challenge? I'm looking at the 25k one. Or does anyone have any experience with this company at all? It all seems quite reasonable, but they're ranked quite low here.

https://www.citytradersimperium.com/...nding-program/

Any feedback appreciated. Thanks.
  • #8,924
  • Jul 1, 2022 4:29am Jul 1, 2022 4:29am
Quoting Nsak3y
But again, this is all assuming that they are trading with real capital in the first place. I suppose that the point still stands, though. Even if we consider the statistics, I would not be surprised if a firm of this size and past history would just find some way to wiggle out of paying any good trader that wanted to throw a wrench into their operation.
I may be wrong but I'm always assuming that we are playing Monopoly money in these firms, not real money.

My comment was that in a wild market some traders can be lucky and achieve high amounts of playing money that the Monopoly bank can't pay.

I'm a bit degenerate with these firms, always assuming that I'm playing a videogame and not with their alleged real money.
I see them as a business of collecting fees and paying some profitable people, like a casino does.
  • #8,925
  • Jul 1, 2022 5:05am Jul 1, 2022 5:05am
lol...from ftmo
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  • #8,926
  • Jul 1, 2022 5:07am Jul 1, 2022 5:07am
Quoting Capablanca
{quote} I may be wrong but I'm always assuming that we are playing Monopoly money in these firms, not real money. My comment was that in a wild market some traders can be lucky and achieve high amounts of playing money that the Monopoly bank can't pay. I'm a bit degenerate with these firms, always assuming that I'm playing a videogame and not with their alleged real money. I see them as a business of collecting fees and paying some profitable people, like a casino does.

Hi,Capablanca ,

I do agree with what you have mentioned above , I doubt that we trade a real money with these kind of prop firms , it looks like a gambling game as most traders fail the challenges (and I'm one of them off course ) and even the successful one who make it to the funded account end up failing in just few months after they have started trading the real funded account.

As a matter of fact ,if you get it calculated right ,you will discover that if you had put the evaluation fees in your real account and trade it successfully ,you'd have been more successful and profitable than keep trying hard to pass the evaluations for ages with no success.


Thanks
I always knew that someday I would make it big
  • #8,927
  • Jul 1, 2022 5:12am Jul 1, 2022 5:12am
I think we should not spend too much attention when an order does not make it to the market. I can remember that I had several trades on stock CFDs with IG Markets, who are one of the leading and oldest CFD provider. At that time I had realtime Level 2 data on all the corresponding equity markets with Sterling Trader Pro and I have never seen my orders have been filled live in any market at any time, when I hit the buy/sell button on stock CFD with IG Markets platform. When I asked them if they take the other side of my order, they say my orders are hedged and go to the markets, but I proofed them wrong. I did not hear from them more. I was very upset at that time with that kind of behavior. So I do not know how they are doing with all CFD orders, but they are on the market as player for over 40 years. Hmm...
  • #8,928
  • Jul 1, 2022 5:13am Jul 1, 2022 5:13am
Quoting Capablanca
{quote} I may be wrong but I'm always assuming that we are playing Monopoly money in these firms, not real money. My comment was that in a wild market some traders can be lucky and achieve high amounts of playing money that the Monopoly bank can't pay. I'm a bit degenerate with these firms, always assuming that I'm playing a videogame and not with their alleged real money. I see them as a business of collecting fees and paying some profitable people, like a casino does.
I think you're largely right, the firms (outside the brick and mortar props) I've got some confidence sourced funds from investors (which take live trades) are MFF and FTMO.
  • #8,929
  • Jul 1, 2022 5:14am Jul 1, 2022 5:14am
Quoting Capablanca
I may be wrong but I'm always assuming that we are playing Monopoly money in these firms, not real money. My comment was that in a wild market some traders can be lucky and achieve high amounts of playing money that the Monopoly bank can't pay.
-Oh, for sure. I suspect that this is the case for most firms (if not all, to some degree). I know what you meant. And I agree.

Whether or not there is any good chance of significant damage may be moot, though. Personally, I think that some firms would just try to find a way around it and ban the trader for some reason that their terms can justify.

So, the real question then becomes whether or not any trader that tries to secure a massive amount of capital will actually be able to benefit from it over the long-term.
  • #8,930
  • Jul 1, 2022 5:14am Jul 1, 2022 5:14am
Quoting Boulder
lol...from ftmo {image}
What is going on this week?
  • #8,931
  • Jul 1, 2022 5:18am Jul 1, 2022 5:18am
Quoting TrAndy1
I think we should not spend too much attention when an order does not make it to the market. I can remember that I had several trades on stock CFDs with IG Markets, who are one of the leading and oldest CFD provider. At that time I had realtime Level 2 data on all the corresponding equity markets with Sterling Trader Pro and I have never seen my orders have been filled live in any market at any time, when I hit the buy/sell button on stock CFD with IG Markets platform. When I asked them if they take the other side of my order, they say my orders...
This isn't too surprising that they'd b-book you till they had to hedge..
  • #8,932
  • Jul 1, 2022 5:19am Jul 1, 2022 5:19am
Quoting Thoughts
What is going on this week?
-I think that they expanded their marketing team. My notifications were flooded with FTMO junk recently.
  • #8,933
  • Jul 1, 2022 5:20am Jul 1, 2022 5:20am
Quoting Nsak3y
{quote}-Oh, for sure. I suspect that this is the case for most firms (if not all, to some degree). I know what you meant. And I agree. Whether or not there is any good chance of significant damage may be moot, though. Personally, I think that some firms would just try to find a way around it and ban the trader for some reason that their terms can justify. So, the real question then becomes whether or not any trader that tries to secure a massive amount of capital will actually be able to benefit from it over the long-term.
I've got first hand info that the big two are sincerely looking for talented traders..
  • #8,934
  • Jul 1, 2022 5:26am Jul 1, 2022 5:26am
Quoting Thoughts
I've got first hand info that the big two are sincerely looking for talented traders..
-I do not doubt it at all. I would be curious about your info, though. But anyway, this is why I say that all firms probably operate this way to some degree; just not entirely. I think that FTMO and MFF both likely cherry-pick only the best traders for live trading and the rest are either ignored or the trading data is used in some other way. 5%er's probably looks for real traders, too, especially since they now have the 100% profit model.
  • #8,935
  • Edited 7:33am Jul 1, 2022 6:21am | Edited 7:33am
Quoting Thoughts
{quote}I've got first hand info that the big two are sincerely looking for talented traders..
What are the criterias to be on board with them ? Where do they say that, where do you can apply ? What do you get as capital to trade with ? Remote ? More infos ?
  • #8,936
  • Jul 1, 2022 8:40am Jul 1, 2022 8:40am
Quoting doji
{quote} Sorry but I didn't think you'd be interested, Zoltan. When did you get back from your trip to Hungary? Check out their socmed accounts (IG, FB, YouTube) if you want to find out more about the Thailand event.
Just would like to confirm to me what I think about them is right.
Believe a Bangladeshi web marketing firm is behind it, and just package it with -well, what else?- some marketing talk sounding good to anyone less aware.
A first hand experience would almost always beat any hearsays.
Take fidelcrest, wanted to look them up when in BP, but found their site they "moved shop" to Cyprus.
Not that they had anything before than a lawyer's office address for the company really...

Got back mid June, some delays in Doha. the lesson: Never fly with non-EU airline to Europe.

I don't have socmed, at all, apart YT. Maybe look at it, thx

Cheers
Z
there is always, always another trade!!
  • #8,937
  • Jul 1, 2022 9:00am Jul 1, 2022 9:00am
Quoting Nsak3y
{quote}-I think that they expanded their marketing team. My notifications were flooded with FTMO junk recently.
Likewise here.

Starting to get a bit tired of it.

Masterrmind ..........
Master your Mind then Master your Trades
  • #8,938
  • Jul 1, 2022 10:58am Jul 1, 2022 10:58am
FTMO's marketing team need to be fired. Not only are they doing the overkill thing, but they are also just bad at their job. DO better be better. Also, i find it interesting that everyone apart from ftmo are publicly stating withdrawal figures lately. FTMO keep that a secret, I wonder if its because the number isn't as high as people think? Hmm.. The only reason not to publish that info is if its bad not good. Unless they post it and I missed it?
  • #8,939
  • Jul 1, 2022 12:46pm Jul 1, 2022 12:46pm
The trading conditions at FTMO are the best ones among all props. So the only thing is they are bit pricey. But as I guess they do not need to care so much on challenge fees, because they have (maybe) an excellent copy trading system. Since they have the longer experience being longer at the market, they could profit more than other props, which are lacking of that experience. That algorithm is probably the real gold for them. So any withdrawal figures are not so important, than their earnings incomes. We can only speculate how much any prop firm is earning from its traders. That would say more how healthy the prop firm is. I would say, FMTO has the best chance to profit much more from trades than from challenge fees. The word 'and' just concludes me, it could be at least equal or something like that.

Because FTMO says the following today:

'Yes, there is an investor that stands behind FTMO pretty much almost from the start. Naturally, we do not disclose the name as the investor wishes to remain private. We do not search for any new investors.
From the technical point of view, FTMO Accounts are demo accounts from which we copy the trades on our live accounts at our own discretion using aggregated orders thanks to our proprietary risk management algorithm.
There are two main reasons why we do not provide FTMO Traders directly with live accounts - legal and administrative. As we are not a regulated broker/traditionally regulated entity that would provide direct access to the financial markets, we can not provide our clients with live accounts. Secondly, we still need to have a certain overview of the FTMO Accounts and the fact that we’re talking about demo accounts makes many administrative processes much faster & easier.
Our revenue is coming from two main streams. We profit from the FTMO Challenge fees and from the profits generated on our live accounts.

I hope this sheds some light on how FTMO works and perhaps the whole situation is a bit more clear. Should you have any further questions, please let me know.'

Just by the way as I know they do not publish monthly payouts but overall figures twice a year. They are on par or in between with the other big ones, MFF and TFT.
Anyone has access to balance sheets or annual income figures of any prop firm out there ? Would be interesting to know.
  • #8,940
  • Jul 1, 2022 2:51pm Jul 1, 2022 2:51pm
Quoting TrAndy1
The trading conditions at FTMO are the best ones among all props. So the only thing is they are bit pricey. But as I guess they do not need to care so much on challenge fees, because they have (maybe) an excellent copy trading system. Since they have the longer experience being longer at the market, they could profit more than other props, which are lacking of that experience. That algorithm is probably the real gold for them. So any withdrawal figures are not so important, than their earnings incomes. We can only speculate how much any prop firm...

I doubt anyone will publish proper balance sheets because it exposes too much proprietary information.

The income of "copying to live account" can be 0 and no one would know. It could also be -10million or +100 million.

The reason that FTMO are demo accounts is because they are in an ESMA regulated entity and they have to skirt financial services laws. They act as an education company but don't actually provide any education themselves but through third parties. They pay for sure and are stable and good. Investor money? I highly doubt it just like every other firm.
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