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  • #23,721
  • Edited 3:42am Oct 7, 2023 3:29am | Edited 3:42am
Quoting AaronPriest
{quote} I've been using ACG for a month or so. There's no problem if you use a fixed lot size, but I had to re-consider my risk approach with my trade copier from my master account because I usually do risk % per trade, and that won't work when lot sizes change and you open another trade while one is in drawdown. I had to switch over to fixed lot size, and now I have to make sure the account is flat before increasing the lot size once I gain some higher balances or I risk hitting martingale flags. I've been careful and haven't triggered any yet...
Yep, Alpha has that. Only multiples of 0.1 lots.
0.10, 4.20, 3.60 is OK.
7.23, 1.24 or 5.67 is not OK.
Doesn't bother me at all but it's worth to mention because in the first day I thought my account was not yet activated. I was trying to enter something like 3.26 and nothing happened.

Never thought, though, that this could be a problem for copiers. It's very well pointed.

That's why this topic is so nice. A lot of different first hand experiences.
  • #23,722
  • Oct 7, 2023 3:40am Oct 7, 2023 3:40am
Quoting FocusWinReal
CT say they have no rules but isn't that a rule to have a stop placed within 1 minute? And for risk managemnt of fake funds? If funds are fake why risk management? Where is the risk for fake funds (demo is the other name no?)?
About CTI rule of SL in 60s depends how we see it. It's not hidden (neither is Finotive) but it's quite reasonable and benevolent.
You forget the SL and they close the trade after 60 seconds. If there is a profit it's not counted. If there is a loss it is counted. And it's not a breach.

I think it's pretty reasonable. Not like finotive that allows people to work 2 months and then points out a trade, 3 weeks before, without a SL.

If your argument against SL is fake funds then we could also question the daily limit.
  • #23,723
  • Oct 7, 2023 4:26am Oct 7, 2023 4:26am
Any news, when is the hearing now ?
  • #23,724
  • Oct 7, 2023 4:42am Oct 7, 2023 4:42am
Quoting Capablanca
{quote} Not like finotive that allows people to work 2 months and then points out a trade, 3 weeks before, without a SL.
In trying to move away from US props,I actually tried finotive. Big mistake for my personal trading habits. Sure enough before too long I placed trade without stop-loss. I had a oh shit moment 5-10 mins after, then I placed a stop loss. I then explained what I had done to their chat support. They told me to email risk. After about 10hrs risk emailed me back to say, I placed a trade without entering SL within 60s violating the rules. They did say that as my account was in profit they could reset the account.

So if you do realise you have broken the 60s rule and your account is not in profit I would suggested letting that trade run to hopefully bring your account into profit then contact them ASAP. That way, given my experience they will reset your account. The email response they gave suggests if my account was not in profit they would have closed the account.

If I'm not successful with this challenge I would not try again with them, better to stick with TFF in that region.
  • #23,725
  • Oct 7, 2023 4:48am Oct 7, 2023 4:48am
Quoting AaronPriest
{quote} I've been using ACG for a month or so. There's no problem if you use a fixed lot size, but I had to re-consider my risk approach with my trade copier from my master account because I usually do risk % per trade, and that won't work when lot sizes change and you open another trade while one is in drawdown. I had to switch over to fixed lot size, and now I have to make sure the account is flat before increasing the lot size once I gain some higher balances or I risk hitting martingale flags. I've been careful and haven't triggered any yet...
ya was also impressed with their dashboard. The martingale count on their site almost got triggered instantly right after i deliberately entered a trade that broke the rule in the free trial. The equity also got updated very quickly, unlike some other prop firms.
memento mori
  • #23,726
  • Oct 7, 2023 6:28am Oct 7, 2023 6:28am
Quoting CableJ
Sep web traffic numbers are in, looks like FTMO, Funded Next (WTF), 5%ers & TFF were the winners of the MFF fallout... {image} Bespoke posting on social that they just made a 6 figure payout...
if you could include thetradingpit ….gracias
  • #23,727
  • Oct 7, 2023 6:31am Oct 7, 2023 6:31am
Quoting TrAndy1
Any news, when is the hearing now ?
November early.
  • #23,728
  • Oct 7, 2023 6:33am Oct 7, 2023 6:33am
I have been contemplating opening a new style of prop firm. Full transparency including all the dealing elements (without exposing strategy) and transparency on what the company is making/losing from trading.

The problem is in order to avoid the CFTC I Would have to ignore US citizens because the CFTC, regardless of virtual, sim or geo location, requires these entities to be registered with them. NO MATTER WHAT. The same goes for 5ers ftmo etc who arent in the US or Canada. That tidal wave is coming, you can see it on the horizon.

In all you guys educated minds, would a full transparent (meaning knowing 100% without a doubt your trades are not getting executed as is) business be successful? Or would the fact that retail trader arrogance and belief they are better than everyone get in the way of success?

As for the offering, lets pretend its identical to MFF's offering.
  • #23,729
  • Oct 7, 2023 6:34am Oct 7, 2023 6:34am
Quoting Takisd
{quote} November early.
Why is it taking that long ? It is not in the best interest of MFF, when it takes longer and longer. They can only loose more, even their whole business model could be gone, if it is taking too long. The time goes against them, why they do not undestand that ?
  • #23,730
  • Oct 7, 2023 7:19am Oct 7, 2023 7:19am
Quoting TrAndy1
{quote} Why is it taking that long ? It is not in the best interest of MFF, when it takes longer and longer. They can only loose more, even their whole business model could be gone, if it is taking too long. The time goes against them, why they do not undestand that ?
I don't know as I am not inside it. From discussions I have had with people who know better than me but are still not inside it, the CFTC tried to basically strangle MFF for a sure win, the first delay was MFF request, the second delay receiver request. The problem was the receiver request was just for a few days delay, but the court was fully booked.

Is it against MFF? probably, but the thing is these things never just magically end. Even if today MFF settled, it would take at least a month if not more to certify it.

You have to assume that the CFTC believes their bullshit, so likely until the hearing no settlement conversation will occur. If MFF try to settle, it will be a case of giving up everything and admitting guilt to everything true or not and basically destroying murtuzas life forever. Once you have fraud on your name using even a bank account becomes very difficult.

The real question is, there are like 5 motions before the court and none of them have been ruled on despite the court having them for weeks. Why haven't they been ruled on? That one is weird, judge should always remain impartial so perhaps hes just busy but there are many strange things with this case.

I also heard that someone else is in for trouble in the next week or two, lets see how that pans out.
  • #23,731
  • Oct 7, 2023 7:42am Oct 7, 2023 7:42am
Quoting Takisd
{quote} I don't know as I am not inside it. From discussions I have had with people who know better than me but are still not inside it, the CFTC tried to basically strangle MFF for a sure win, the first delay was MFF request, the second delay receiver request. The problem was the receiver request was just for a few days delay, but the court was fully booked. Is it against MFF? probably, but the thing is these things never just magically end. Even if today MFF settled, it would take at least a month if not more to certify it. You have to assume...

These wrestling matches with regulators take time. Just like with Ripple vs SEC, they had been at it for better part of 3+ years.

It wouldn’t surprise me if MFF is still in limbo this time next year.
Trade with confidence, trade without fear.
  • #23,732
  • Oct 7, 2023 7:47am Oct 7, 2023 7:47am
Quoting Tovip
{quote} ya was also impressed with their dashboard. The martingale count on their site almost got triggered instantly right after i deliberately entered a trade that broke the rule in the free trial. The equity also got updated very quickly, unlike some other prop firms.
I quite liked ACG lately until I realized their scaling plan gives you a slower account growth than is even growth of your generated profits. Do I get it right that, in order to scale up, you have to leave profits on the account until you get 10% and then you get 10% but of the initial balance only? So your profits compound (as your balance grows) but the balance itself does not compound?
It's the slowest scale up plan I have seen. Not good
Money is made by sitting, not trading
  • #23,733
  • Oct 7, 2023 7:49am Oct 7, 2023 7:49am
Quoting Cryptosurf
{quote} These wrestling matches with regulators take time. Just like with Ripple vs SEC, they had been at it for better part of 3+ years. It wouldn’t surprise me if MFF is still in limbo this time next year.
I doubt it. If I am to make an estimate, it will be all over before feb and it will be a settlement and registration scenario. It wont go to trial, its not worth it going to trial for either side.
  • #23,734
  • Oct 7, 2023 7:53am Oct 7, 2023 7:53am
Quoting Nehemah
{quote} Because I don't trade on phone. (not sure that changes something)
I understand now. You want to complain about your problems. You don't want to fix your problems.
  • #23,735
  • Oct 7, 2023 7:54am Oct 7, 2023 7:54am
Quoting Takisd
I have been contemplating opening a new style of prop firm. Full transparency including all the dealing elements (without exposing strategy) and transparency on what the company is making/losing from trading. The problem is in order to avoid the CFTC I Would have to ignore US citizens because the CFTC, regardless of virtual, sim or geo location, requires these entities to be registered with them. NO MATTER WHAT. The same goes for 5ers ftmo etc who arent in the US or Canada. That tidal wave is coming, you can see it on the horizon. In all you guys...
I think the statement CFTC released proves that MFF business model can work very well even when the traders are given very good conditions to trade, with no dirty tricks. But only when the sample size is large. I imagine there would always be some people who would wanna do an all or nothing approach once they pass the challenge. If the sample size is relatively small, and these people do make a big big win, I am not sure how the particular prop firm can survive through it while honouring the agreement to do the payout, unless that prop firm has a very big capital to begin with, and the "big payout" is still considered to be small, compared to the firm's capital.

But ya, if the prop firm is legit, has reliable payout history, no rules to deliberately put traders in disadvantageous position, why not?

(Also, you may wanna change your status if you do open a prop firm. Just kidding I respect you, takisd...you know that...)
memento mori
  • #23,736
  • Oct 7, 2023 7:57am Oct 7, 2023 7:57am
Quoting Takisd
I have been contemplating opening a new style of prop firm. Full transparency including all the dealing elements (without exposing strategy) and transparency on what the company is making/losing from trading. The problem is in order to avoid the CFTC I Would have to ignore US citizens because the CFTC, regardless of virtual, sim or geo location, requires these entities to be registered with them. NO MATTER WHAT. The same goes for 5ers ftmo etc who arent in the US or Canada. That tidal wave is coming, you can see it on the horizon. In all you guys...
I would be the first to sign up because of the transparency offered …but that is just me ..
  • #23,737
  • Oct 7, 2023 8:03am Oct 7, 2023 8:03am
Quoting Takisd
I have been contemplating opening a new style of prop firm. Full transparency including all the dealing elements (without exposing strategy) and transparency on what the company is making/losing from trading. The problem is in order to avoid the CFTC I Would have to ignore US citizens because the CFTC, regardless of virtual, sim or geo location, requires these entities to be registered with them. NO MATTER WHAT. The same goes for 5ers ftmo etc who arent in the US or Canada. That tidal wave is coming, you can see it on the horizon. In all you guys...
Since I'm sure 80% about wouldnt care if its simulated cash if its marketed properly. As long as people get payouts . They will flock to it. I'm not sure tbh why prop firms decided to not be honest about it from the start, apart from FTMO which kinda who mentions it.But not even they got full transparency right since if u ask them in support, they say ofc we A-book... giving impression thats the key income in order to give payouts. So yea it is kinda peculiar how even the current most trustworthy forex prop firm isnt transparent despite all what happened.

Maybe since they felt they wanted to trick as many people as possible without any consequence or whatsoever. It also shows to me how they are non investable longterm all props firms which shows any sign of non transparency.

But then again. I dont think prop firms want people like me. They want the suckers, and suckers dont care for transparency and logically since they enjoy being suckers would lose alot and thus give more profit to prop firms who are not into transparency. Thus in turn gives zero incentive for prop firms to be transparent. Since it would for sure attract serious traders if a prop firm was totally transparent. That would require a different business model than MFF im sure in end. To even stay alive. Actually even putting more on that A-book to cope and hope for the best.

I guess thats the tricky part having a prop firm. How would you know the quality of the traders from just a short time. Even 3 months testing time is pushing it to determine if trader would been profitable on a A-book as I noticed.
So even that to having to deal less with such worries, just putting lies on the marketing, false hopes is way easier than to truly understand if the trader is actually profitable and which level they are at etc. As long as they are not caught right. Shame its over for them now more or less even if most prop firms are in denial atm it seems forex ones. But new ones might pop up like that. Total transparency alternatives. Could be a game changer for sure.

For me personally as a "semi newbie" I would been way more willing to invest in forex prop firms if I noticed they were honest. Since I would realize their longevity would been more possible and not just a lie and hit and run ponzi scheme. Which the non transparent forex prop firms give the smell off. The moment one realize they got something to hide it feels dirty to even invest in them.
PS: I keep practicing on my novel writing here.
  • #23,738
  • Oct 7, 2023 8:05am Oct 7, 2023 8:05am
Quoting Vitore
{quote} I quite liked ACG lately until I realized their scaling plan gives you a slower account growth than is even growth of your generated profits. Do I get it right that, in order to scale up, you have to leave profits on the account until you get 10% and then you get 10% but of the initial balance only? So your profits compound (as your balance grows) but the balance itself does not compound? It's the slowest scale up plan I have seen. Not good
I haven't got any accounts with them yet except the free trial.But ya, according to their FAQ, the account is only eligible for scale up if the 10% is left in the account before the scale up. But then, once you request for the scale up, you can also request for the withdrawal simultaneously or right after? ( don't have an account with them so not sure if I am right on this...) If that's the case, the scale up is actually not that bad in my opinion if the trader can do 10% per month. So he can have the account to be scaled up to 30% more after 3 months. But the % for profit split would stay at 80% it seems.

I use a trade copier, so the fact that they only allow lot size in the multiples of 0.10 is a problem to me. Other than that, the rest looks ok-ishhh to me...
memento mori
  • #23,739
  • Oct 7, 2023 8:07am Oct 7, 2023 8:07am
Quoting Takisd
{quote} I don't know as I am not inside it. From discussions I have had with people who know better than me but are still not inside it, the CFTC tried to basically strangle MFF for a sure win, the first delay was MFF request, the second delay receiver request. The problem was the receiver request was just for a few days delay, but the court was fully booked. Is it against MFF? probably, but the thing is these things never just magically end. Even if today MFF settled, it would take at least a month if not more to certify it. You have to assume...
that someone else...does his name start with the letter A?
memento mori
  • #23,740
  • Oct 7, 2023 8:10am Oct 7, 2023 8:10am
The real sustainable business model is, when they have full transparency of all incoming and outgoing payments. They need to set a fixed percentage of all incoming challenge fees for any outgoing payouts. So in case they get less challenge fees the payout percentage is lower and when they have more customers and more fees taken then they can afford higher percentage payouts. All transparent published anytime from the prop firm. So everyone knows how much is in the pot and how much out of it, it will be distributed among the successful traders. That model could survive for long term. Of course some props have higher fixed cost for admin and staff but this would be reliable way to build trust. There would be no excuses anymore to deny any payouts, because the outgoing payout amoung is ALWAYS lower than any incoming sum of challenge fees. For example if any prop had 900k incoming fees they could give a total payout amount of say 750k, so the prop can survive after all cost and still can make some money. So it depends on the month how many traders were being successul on their funded accounts and how much they gained. Then the prop only needs to adjust the profit split, which can very here a lot depending on incoming fees. Say something between 50% to 90% to make an example here.
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