US Inflation just hit a 4-year low. Don't expect price relief to last even as trade wars die down | Metals Mine

  • US Inflation just hit a 4-year low. Don't expect price relief to last even as trade wars die down

    From morningstar.com

    CPI and PCE inflation gauges show that price increases slowed in early 2025, but tariffs are still likely to drive a 'temporary rise in inflation' Don't get used to the decline in the U.S. rate of inflation to a four-year low. The rate of inflation based on the consumer-price index dipped to 2.3% in April from 2.4% in the prior month, the government said Tuesday. That marks the lowest level since February 2021. Yet inflation will probably rise, at least temporarily, even after the Trump administration reduced high tariffs, economists say. And that will complicate the Federal Reserve's decision on when - or whether - ... (full story)

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Eurorally
May 14, 2025 3:50pm
Permalink
Prices went down - do not expect it to last, say the uneducated and biased journos.

The CPI (hypotetically) goes up by 0.1 - the sky is falling !

(Mostly everything is cheaper today than 50 years ago - "sky is falling, sky is falling," except for gas that is about the same and, of course, housing that is signifcantly more expensive - though the average new house in 1975 was 1,700 sq. ft. and it is 2,500 sq, ft. today. Wonna data? It is on In'ernet and I can oblige if so required. Of course, Trump and Powell and Elites like you are lying, didn't you know that?)
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Eurorally
May 14, 2025 10:33pm — Edited
Permalink
Quoting Trader#AFBA
Bull crap......I do not see inflation lower. Everything I have to buy has went up.
Yes, of course, everything went up because we have had inflation. The question is what the prices are after adjustment for inflation vis a vis the household income. Here are the numbers:

Cumulative inflation 1975 - 2025 (50 years): 475%, if that looks scary for you please hold on.
This means that the average annual inflation has been 3.65% (1.0365 raised to the 50th power equals 5.97)
Cumulative inflation of 497% also means that $1 in 1975 is worth $5.97 today (not$ 4.97).

The average price of meat in 1975 was $1.80 per pound, which is $10.75 in today's money.
Now, we buy Angus steak for $9.00 a pound and beautiful pork cutlets for as little as 99 cents a pound.
So, is that chepaer today than in 1975? The same is true, with very few exceptions for most that we buy.
Exceptions: Gas, that is about the same as 50 years ago. And then, of course housing (part of it is that the average new house in 1975 has 1,700 sq. ft. whereas it is 2,500 sq,ft. today).

So much for your "everything I buy costs more."

Now the question is what has been the inflation in the household income?
The answer: It has been rising at a rate slightly above the rate of inflation for decades.

Thus, you just have to understand the mathematics of inflation, have the economic data and
the difference between the real income in today's dollars and the nominal income adjusted for inflation.

BTW, very few understand that the inflation target of 2% adopted by our FED and emulated by the central banks world over is not the result of any scientific economic study but it was pulled out of thin air. Thus, it could be 1% or 3% just as well.

We have this positive target only to protect us against the dreaded disinflation whereby the prices start dropping uncontrollably, the producers and retailers cannot recover their costs and a wave of bankruptcies ensues.

Now, people say "but how about the last five years, we are scared by prices!"
Here are the numbers for the past five years:
Cumulative inflation of 23.56% or 4.26% per year. Thus, $1 in 2022 is worth $1.24 today.
Household income increased from 68,000 in Jan 2020 to $82,000 in Jan 2025, BY ABOUT 21%, namely
slightly BELOW the rate of inflation, in spite of Covid-19 epidemic.
That is POSITIVE because it is DEFLATIONARY. This is exactly the opposite than what the South American countries have been doing for 150 years by which they have been destroying the economies. Socialist Venezuela has the inflation of 152% today, Argentina 56% and Brazil was 3,000% in 1990. They simply print more money and increase salaries above the rate of inflation by a government decree.

I have always said that a little bit more understanding of economics would not hurt the American public that is living constantly in the fear of inflation and allegedly high prices. But Americans should relax, smell the roses and enjoy their good fortune of living in the country with the highest standard of living ever achieved on Earth.

These false ideas about the state of the national economy are spread by two groups of people (and based on such reports, for instance 53% of Hungarians believe that our economy is on the ropes and will soon collapse):

1. "Experts" and pundits: Bloomberg News economic model predicted the recession in the US for Nov 2022 based on their "economic model" with the probability of 100%, which is a scinetific falsity as there is no 100% probability of any event in economic forecasting as both tails of the distribution of probability go to infinity.

"Experts" and pundits have been keeping in this way their listeners at the edge of their seats for years for a sole purpose of keeping the number of viewers as the advertising income depends on these numbers.

2. Politicians of both stripes who criticize the party in power alleging that its policies are inflationary, which is frequently very true. But they are making mistake in alleging that the economy is going to the dogs instead of, likely because of the lack of understanding of the economics, discussing specific inflationary measure such as profligate spending, increasing money supply, borrowing money thus increasing the national debt and printing money thus increasing the FED's "assets."

Details and numbers are too complicated for this space.
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Eurorally
May 15, 2025 8:30am
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Quoting MisterWho
I agree with a lot of things you guys are saying, but disagree on others. I don't want to waste your time with my opinions, nevertheless, I have to correct you on this: {quote} The only real "achievements" of European socialist governments have been skyrocketing public spending and debt. Take Spain for instance, under every socialist administration, there’s always been a surge in private sector unemployment while public sector employment keeps growing. This creates a completely false sense of social welfare at the expense of taxpayers...
You have said it. So I do not have to.

But when our friend is talking bove about the "happiness" index and the "unavoidable efect of Trump's rariffs," unhappily, he is talking out of school:

HAPPINESS: Jeffrey Sachs of Columbia issues for the UN a repot on the "happiest Countries of the World."
Invariably, they are Scandianvian countries, currently it is Finland.

The report is based on the self-evaluation called Cantrill Index, namely "how do you feel."

Said a jourmalist out of Finland:
1. We did not know about it because we do not feel that way
2. If we do, the reason may be the harsh living conditions we have to successfully overcome.
3. It may just be that our expectations are lower.

The socialist governments lead to happier populace? That is a romantic misconception of a left-winger.
This writer lived under sociailism so I know what I am talking about.
Says von Hayek, the 1974 Nobel Laureate in Economic Sciences: "Socialist regimes, in their never ending strive for more and more control of the society and its subjects must naturally limit personal liberties of the populace, including by terror. (Lenin, Collected Works, Russian edition, page 156: "Terror must remain an important part of the socialist revolution.)

So what happens in innocuous Scandinavian socialism?

The sales tax in Denmark on most new cars excep for some puny little cars is 150% of the sales prices, recently lowered from 180%. I do not think this is well known in the US.

In socialist Sweden, the police woke up a famous movie director Ingemar Bergman at 2 am, arrested him and accused him of tax evasion. It took months of court haggling before he was exonerated of all charges and moved to Switzerland.
The same fate was met by Igvar Kaprand, the founder of IKEA, known for buying his clothes at discount stores and driving an old car.

TRUMP'S TARIFFS: When BMW was imported with a tariff of 2.5% for decades and the tariff in Germany and Japan on American cars is 10% to 15% plus 15% to 255 VAT, this could be justified only if you believe, as a European visitor told me here that "Americans have more money so they can pay." It means that for decades we were favoring foreing manufacturrers and foreign labor at the expense of our manufacturers and our labor.

Trump wants to fix it by lowering the imports and lowering the unsustainable negative balance of payments
we have with most developed countries and use the income from tariffs to reduce or eliminate various income taxes.

WHAT IS THERE NOT TO LIKE?

But meadia devoid of any knowledge of economics are falling all over thmselves with "Trump wants to destroy the national economy" and "Trump started an unprecedented trade war." The one we have been seeing over the last two days takes the cake: "prices are falling but do not expect it to last."
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Eurorally
May 15, 2025 9:24am
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Quoting MisterWho
{quote} We could be talking for hours about their failures. Some people see it differently based on their knowledge, and only by sharing information can we get to a more accurate point of view... By the way, loved the quote for Hayek, big fan of his words in the road to serfdom (Hope I translated it the right way, I have it in spanish)
Yes, of course, you translated von Hayek correctly, the 1943 worldwide bestseller, sold million of copies.

Here is the problem as I see it: Most people talk based on faith, beliefs, innuendo and political proclivities, even a political bias, rather than facts and economics data. This is true for most journos who pretend to know more than the public that is reading them and, not knowing any better, believing them.

(BTW, in spite of my name, I am not Russian and have never been to Russia. But I do speak Russian and a few other languages I learned in school.)
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DaJoWaBa
May 15, 2025 2:52am — Edited
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Quoting Eurorally
{quote} Yes, of course, everything went up because we have had inflation. The question is what the prices are after adjustment for inflation vis a vis the household income. Here are the numbers: Cumulative inflation 1975 - 2025 (50 years): 475%, if that looks scary for you please hold on. This means that the average annual inflation has been 3.65% (1.0365 raised to the 50th power equals 5.97) Cumulative inflation of 497% also means that $1 in 1975 is worth $5.97 today (not$ 4.97). The average price of meat in 1975 was $1.80 per pound, which is $10.75...
That's quite a speech. It must have taken you quite some time to write it so your very last sentence made me laugh. Thank you for the interesting points you make but I'd like to make a few points myself.

As a general rule over the years, yes, socialist governments tend not to do as well in terms of GDP and Economics as Centre-Right governments (there is good research into that) but that ignores other parameters, such as social happiness and well-being.

The examples you use, from South America, are the most extreme forms from the past. Milei is making a fundamental change to Argentina's outlook and he is clearly a Right-leaning Liberal. But there have also been successes with Social Democrats in Europe, for instance, which you have excluded from your examples precisely to make a point.

You have chosen a period of 50 years and whilst that is a sound basis for statistical analysis, it includes periods of super-growth and periods of recessions, so your point about what economists might expect to happen is clouded as the economists are referring to what might happen in the next 1-3 years, not the next 50 years.

The items you have chosen to refer to as indicators of inflation are all majority US produced items (Angus doesn't mean it comes from Scotland), not imported ones.

However, we can be sure that the extreme forms of Tariff application will have consequences of some sort: either in more inflation than would otherwise have happened, or reduction in GDP etc. but we just don't know yet where some or all of the consequences will turn up. But they will, somehow.

Some of it may turn up quickly, some slowly, and the balance of stress will flow like water to the areas of least resistance. Covid and War in Ukraine had economic consequences and the impending extreme blanket Tariffs will have consequences too. I don't doubt that the USA economy will be more tolerant of stress than many others but it's not immune. Covid and the War in Ukriane had epicentres elsewhere even if the consequences weree global. Trump's tariffs are self-inflicted and the epicentre is very definitely USA-based.

Have a good day.
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DaJoWaBa
May 15, 2025 8:17am
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Quoting MisterWho
I agree with a lot of things you guys are saying, but disagree on others. I don't want to waste your time with my opinions, nevertheless, I have to correct you on this: {quote} The only real "achievements" of European socialist governments have been skyrocketing public spending and debt. Take Spain for instance, under every socialist administration, there’s always been a surge in private sector unemployment while public sector employment keeps growing. This creates a completely false sense of social welfare at the expense of taxpayers...
All good. I'm personally happy to read well-presented comments and you make some good points.

Southern European Socialism's record is not as great as its Nordic cousin. My personal economic outlook is at the centre right so I wasn't advocating Social Democratic Governments, merely pointing out that general sweeping statements and stereotyping, sometimes well-earned, doesn't preclude exceptions

My main points were to point out that chosen specific extreme examples in place, time and items is not a good methodology for testing hypothesis against a full spectrum of real, hard data.
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DaJoWaBa
May 15, 2025 8:45am
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Quoting Eurorally
{quote} You have said it. So I do not have to. But when our friend is talking bove about the "happiness" index and the "unavoidable efect of Trump's rariffs," unhappily, he is talking out of school: HAPPINESS: Jeffrey Sachs of Columbia issues for the UN a repot on the "happiest Countries of the World." Invariably, they are Scandianvian countries, currently it is Finland. The report is based on the self-evaluation called Cantrill Index, namely "how do you feel." Said a jourmalist out of Finland: 1. We did not...
Please be aware that I threw in the point about happiness as a stirrer, which seems to have provoked debate.
Happiness is possible in a liberal society too.

As stated elsewhere, my disposition is at Centre-Right. I was not advocating socialist policies, merely pointing out that making an argument with only extreme examples or data points doesn't make the argument right.

Personally, I think GDP should only ever be quoted on a per capita basis and inflation or values only compared with the price of gold. I'm not advocating the old gold standard, merely that it provides a balanced comparison with something of relative static supply. The figures for how better off people are takes on a different look then.

Have a good day.
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Eurorally
May 15, 2025 8:35am
Permalink
Oh, I said that the sales tax in new cars in Denmark is 150% of the purchase price:

This must be why I saw thousands of bicycles stacked in three levels at the Copenhagen main railraod station.

So much for the happiest countries in the world.
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Eurorally
May 15, 2025 9:52pm — Edited
Permalink
Quoting DaJoWaBa
{quote} You are clearly widely-read and very knowledgeable; able to extract interesting facts from a wide variety of sources but you do have a tendency to extract extreme datapoints to use as examples to prove a point. This is not an argument but just a gentle observation. HAPPINESS: What makes someone happy is not the same for each individual or even groups. If the majority of the Nordics feel happy and consistently come top of the league for such measures then one can argue that their governments are delivering what the their populations want....
Thank you for your thoughful response.

HAPPINESS: I would like to refer you back to that Finnish journo, Danish teacher and the Swedes Bergman and Kaprand. I can tell you that anything like that would cause a revolution in the US.

So if you feel that the Scandinavian governments are giving people what they want so they feel "happy" on the Cantrill scale of self-evaluation, then perhaps the "happiest country in the world" is a self-deceiving illusion motivated more by political proclivities and even bias than anything else.

Certainly the standard of living in Scandinavia is no way as high as in the US. Been there, seen that. But Americans live constantly by the illusion that their economy may crash and the "therapists" are for that reason booked for a foreseeable future. This misconception is fueled by:

1. Pundits and "experts" who have been forecasting a recession for years now just to keep their listeners on the edge of their seats only because the advertising income depends on the number of viewers. They will be right some day, be it in two years or 20 years as the cyclical capitalist economy overheats and slows down as it always does.

2. Politicans of both stripes do the same just to criticize the party in power, justifiably, but it is too complicated to discuss here. (Iflationary profligate spending, borrowing money thus increasing the national debt, printing money and thus increasing the FED's "asests," increasing the money supply by an astronomical 40% just in two years thus creating conditions for runaway inflation - see another Nobel Laureate Milton Friedman on that.)

The result is that 53% of Hungarians, whose standard of living is 45% of the American standard of living believe that the American economy is on the ropes and will collapse soon.

Thus, it is a farce and the effect on the American happiness is there plain to see. Americans should relax, smell the roses and enjoy their great fortune.

Most people here have no concept of socialism (I lived in it for 30 years - not in Russia). If you are in UK then von Hayek writes that one thing that prompted him to write The Road to Serfdom was the fact that the general opinion in UK between the wars was that the central planning of the national economy was desirable - the main tenet of the decadent "Scientific Socialism" we were drilled into us at the university. (Our textbook of political economy was titled "Rotting Capitalism.")

Indeed, in 1945, the good British voters threw out the "warmonger" Churchill and installed the government of socialist Clement Attlee that started wholesale nationalization even the Iron Lady Margaret Thatcher was not able to completely reverse 20 years later. But in 1950, the British voters had enough of socialism and put Churchill back one more time.

(Clement Attlee met Winston Churchill in the men's rom at the Whitehall and Churchill bolted. "Why so modest Winston?" asked Attlee when they met again. "Because every time when you see anything big you want to nationalize it" answered Churchill.)

TRUMP'S TARIFFS: It is really a simple concept that escapes most and mostly for political reasons perpetuated by the media saying "tariffs will, no must to increase the prices and create inflation."

In the meantime the prices went down over the last two days (CPI and PPI) and media writes: "Prices went down but do not expect it to last." It is a farce.

Media never mention the Trump's goals:
- Lower the dollar amout of imports
- Thus lower the unsustainable negative balance of payments we have with major countries ($400 billion with China) because the consumers in the strongest economy of the world have been buying imports left and right
- Replace part of the imports by domestic production to benefit American manufacturers and American labor
- Use the income from tariffs to reduce income tax rates, eliminate tax on Social Security benefits and on tips and overtime over 40 hours a week - legislative proposals are debated in the Congress of the United States - to benefit Americans

Here is a clear example: When BMW (cheaper in New York than in Munich where it is made - been there, seen that) was imported into the US with the tariff of 2.5% for decades whereas Chevrolet - no luxury car - was imported into Germany with the tariff of 10% and 15% VAT, there was something wrong. Trump changed that. What was wrong was the fact that such trading policy benefitted foreign manufacturers and foreign labor at the expense of the American manufacturers and American labor.

Caveats:
- With this example, you cannot call tariffs a government intervention of the socialist type von Hayek is railing against unless you agree that "Americans have more money so they can pay" as a European visitor told me here without any irony.
- I understand that VAT is a sales tax. The problem is that VAT is 15% to 25% all over Europe that is charged at the time of importation whereas the American sales tax is merely 8% charged to the retail customer at the time of sale. (The sales tax on new cars in a socialist and formely the hapiest country of Denmark is 150% of the sales price! If this sounds crazy then it is. Yet, the happiest country.......)
- I have seen a bumper sticker on a BMW that read "Real Americans buy what they like!" I agree with that as I am partial to German cars myself. YET, SEE ABOVE AND PONDER THE FACTS. It is impossible in this regard to fault Trump on anything he is doing unless one is a politically biased anti-Trump partisan entirely devoid of any knowledge of economics talking merely based on faith, innuendo, political proclivites and even a bias.
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Eurorally
May 16, 2025 8:13am
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Quoting DaJoWaBa
{quote} You're repeating yourself extensively now, as if you're determined to convert someone. I'm not for converting but examination of the realities based on the fundaments. My evidence for the comment above is housed in your final parting: "It is impossible in this regard to fault Trump on anything he is doing unless one is a politically biased anti-Trump partisan entirely devoid of any knowledge of economics talking merely based on faith, innuendo, political proclivites and even a bias." Take a look in the mirror. VAT is charged all...
I am sorry but you do not understand. And your opinions are not based on economics but political proclivities.

For this reason, I will repeat myself again, in spite of your criticism of it, because you and many others do not get it (and that includes 15% to 25% European VAT vs. 8% American sales tax):

Here is a clear example: When BMW (cheaper in New York than in Munich where it is made - been there, seen that) was imported into the US with the tariff of 2.5% for decades whereas Chevrolet - no luxury car - was imported into Germany with the tariff of 10% and 15% VAT, there was something wrong. Trump changed that. What was wrong was the fact that such trading policy benefitted foreign manufacturers and foreign labor at the expense of the American manufacturers and American labor.

I am out of here and will respectfully decline to continue this discussion.
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DaJoWaBa
May 15, 2025 8:41am
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Quoting MisterWho
{quote} Yeah me too, It’s really nice to see a respectful and objective discussion here without the usual political noise you know. I just wanted to point out that, in most cases, these policies haven’t really been beneficial. Sometimes media coverage can paint a different picture, and since I’ve seen it firsthand, I felt the need to chime in.
Yes, all good.
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DaJoWaBa
May 15, 2025 10:33am
Permalink
Quoting Eurorally
{quote} You have said it. So I do not have to. But when our friend is talking bove about the "happiness" index and the "unavoidable efect of Trump's rariffs," unhappily, he is talking out of school: HAPPINESS: Jeffrey Sachs of Columbia issues for the UN a repot on the "happiest Countries of the World." Invariably, they are Scandianvian countries, currently it is Finland. The report is based on the self-evaluation called Cantrill Index, namely "how do you feel." Said a jourmalist out of Finland: 1. We did not...
You are clearly widely-read and very knowledgeable; able to extract interesting facts from a wide variety of sources but you do have a tendency to extract extreme datapoints to use as examples to prove a point. This is not an argument but just a gentle observation.

HAPPINESS:
What makes someone happy is not the same for each individual or even groups. If the majority of the Nordics feel happy and consistently come top of the league for such measures then one can argue that their governments are delivering what the their populations want. One can't tell them they're wrong or that someone else's measure of success or happiness is the only right one.

Most of us have experienced socialism in some form, whether a mild form or not.

TRUMP'S TARIFFS:
The ONLY way of ensuring that the production of goods (or services) is guaranteed to be an exporting success, and simultaneously limiting imports of competitive products as a result, is if the product is in high demand and way better value-for-money than all of the competition, if it exists. The most successful way of doing that is investing in making the product ground-breaking or novel, investing in making sure you maximise it's productivity and profitability, do so reiteratively and expect it to have short niche advantage before the competition catches up. Unless, of course, you reinvest and take the product ahead of the competition repetitively, such as AAAMMNT have been doing.
Trump's Tariffs sit squarely into focus as State Intervention, which Hayek warned against. It attempts to pick winners and losers. Tariffs might work in isolated cases particularly if a state is 'dumping' excess inventory but an across-the-board application will definitely have seen and unforeseen consequences.
Please know that VAT is NOT a tax on imports or a Tariff. It's a Sales Tax on all products that are not staples. It matters not where the country of origin is.
I live in the UK and with the possible exception of a Tesla in recent times, no amount of Tariff or lack of Tariff would make me buy a USA-manufactured car, especially a Pick-Up, as it does not suit my needs. But Tesla is losing its edge too. I make this comment really only as a reinforcement of the difference between imposed value Tariffs and just exceptional product qualities. I do use MS, Amazon, Google and nVidia products because they satisfy my needs.

P.S. re Inflation, please note that in the last 2 hours Walmart Executives have announced that they will be increasing prices due to Trump's tariffs as the cost increases are not able to be absorbed. But, maybe USA consumers will stop buying bananas, cocoa or coffee to avoid inflation.

Thanks very much for the debate and for making me reflect on plenty of points made.

Have a good day.
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DaJoWaBa
May 16, 2025 12:48am — Edited
Permalink
Quoting Eurorally
{quote} Thank you for your thoughful response. HAPPINESS: I would like to refer you back to that Finnish journo, Danish teacher and the Swedes Bergman and Kaprand. I can tell you that anything like that would cause a revolution in the US. So if you feel that the Scandinavian governments are giving people what they want so they feel "happy" on the Cantrill scale of self-evaluation, then perhaps the "happiest country in the world" is a self-deceiving illusion motivated more by political proclivities and even bias than anything...
You're repeating yourself extensively now, as if you're determined to convert someone. I'm not for converting but examination of the realities based on the fundaments.

My evidence for the comment above is housed in your final parting: "It is impossible in this regard to fault Trump on anything he is doing unless one is a politically biased anti-Trump partisan entirely devoid of any knowledge of economics talking merely based on faith, innuendo, political proclivites and even a bias." Take a look in the mirror.

VAT is charged all the way through the system on sales pricing and therefore marginally reclaimed and by default the final consumer ends up paying the full chain VAT. I reiterate that it's paid by every company and therefore to claim it as a disadvantage to USA companies is nonsense as the competitor also pays it. An absolute tariff is different and IS anti-competitive or protective and on that we can agree.

If you want to see what effect the imposition of tariffs across the board have, take a look at Brexit, although I'd say that the models used don't make allowance for Covid and War in Ukraine after-effects.

I'll repeat my stance. Tariffs will have a detrimental effect on the US by default, in some or many ways. It will affect and has already affected, to a greater or lesser degree, pockets of global trade patterns. We will not know exactly how and where the consequences will play out and in the USA particularly until it's too late or a different administration moves into USA and back-tracks. This is NOT a political statement but a look at the reality.

If a USA consumer buys a product like bananas, cocoa, coffee or kangaroo-hide hats, the minimum 10% tariff will have to be paid with no USA-based manufacturer. So, either you'll get inflation directly from it or the consumer stops buying them, which results in a drop in GDP as the USA depends so heavily on consumerism. It's simply unavoidable in the short-term. Sure, the tariff imposition will then largely fall out of the inflation-inducing comparisons except that consequential chain reaction inflation has a nasty habit of taking a lot longer to stop, as 'transitory inflation' has been witnessed already in the last 4 years.

The only way for any business and, by extension, country, to prosper is to make products (or services) that other people want badly to the extent it appears as a monopoly, attained by developing new products and investing heavily in keeping ahead of the competition.
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DaJoWaBa
May 16, 2025 12:53am
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Quoting Jr123
{quote} As for asking the question of happiness for northern countries you might find quite a discrepancy between winter and summer months.
Indeed. The Hygge and alcohol consumption rises.
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MisterWho
May 15, 2025 7:47am
Permalink
I agree with a lot of things you guys are saying, but disagree on others. I don't want to waste your time with my opinions, nevertheless, I have to correct you on this:

Quoting DaJoWaBa
{quote}... But there have also been successes with Social Democrats in Europe, for instance, which you have excluded from your examples precisely to make a point. ...
The only real "achievements" of European socialist governments have been skyrocketing public spending and debt. Take Spain for instance, under every socialist administration, there’s always been a surge in private sector unemployment while public sector employment keeps growing. This creates a completely false sense of social welfare at the expense of taxpayers and results in equally deceptive economic growth. In reality, what seems like social progress is just an illusion propped up by increased government payrolls and public debt.

And that’s not even considering the erosion of manufacturing and the offshoring of companies to foreign countries, largely driven by the immense bureaucracy implemented by socialist governments, which further undermines economic stability and long-term growth.

Hope you have a profitable session guys!
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MisterWho
May 15, 2025 8:35am
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Quoting DaJoWaBa
{quote} All good. I'm personally happy to read well-presented comments and you make some good points. Southern European Socialism's record is not as great as its Nordic cousin. My personal economic outlook is at the centre right so I wasn't advocating Social Democratic Governments, merely pointing out that general sweeping statements and stereotyping, sometimes well-earned, doesn't preclude exceptions My main points were to point out that chosen specific extreme examples in place, time and items is not a good methodology for testing hypothesis against...
Yeah me too, It’s really nice to see a respectful and objective discussion here without the usual political noise you know.

I just wanted to point out that, in most cases, these policies haven’t really been beneficial. Sometimes media coverage can paint a different picture, and since I’ve seen it firsthand, I felt the need to chime in.
Reply
MisterWho
May 15, 2025 8:55am
Permalink
Quoting Eurorally
{quote} You have said it. So I do not have to. But when our friend is talking bove about the "happiness" index and the "unavoidable efect of Trump's rariffs," unhappily, he is talking out of school: HAPPINESS: Jeffrey Sachs of Columbia issues for the UN a repot on the "happiest Countries of the World." Invariably, they are Scandianvian countries, currently it is Finland. The report is based on the self-evaluation called Cantrill Index, namely "how do you feel." Said a jourmalist out of Finland: 1. We did not...
We could be talking for hours about their failures. Some people see it differently based on their knowledge, and only by sharing information can we get to a more accurate point of view...

By the way, loved the quote for Hayek, big fan of his words in the road to serfdom (Hope I translated it the right way, I have it in spanish)
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MisterWho
May 15, 2025 9:42am
Permalink
Quoting Eurorally
{quote} Yes, of course, you translated von Hayek correctly, the 1943 worldwide bestseller, sold million of copies. Here is the problem as I see it: Most people talk based on faith, beliefs, innuendo and political proclivities, even a political bias, rather than facts and economics data. This is true for most journos who pretend to know more than the public that is reading them and, not knowing any better, believing them. (BTW, in spite of my name, I am not Russian and have never been to Russia. But I do speak Russian and a few other languages I...
And you're absolutely right, most people do tend to act that way around here, but not Dajo, I think he made his point about happiness clear afterwards.

No worries, I think nationality is the least important thing here, and anybody who sees the pic you have will understand your name.
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Jr123
May 15, 2025 12:19pm
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Quoting DaJoWaBa
{quote} You are clearly widely-read and very knowledgeable; able to extract interesting facts from a wide variety of sources but you do have a tendency to extract extreme datapoints to use as examples to prove a point. This is not an argument but just a gentle observation. HAPPINESS: What makes someone happy is not the same for each individual or even groups. If the majority of the Nordics feel happy and consistently come top of the league for such measures then one can argue that their governments are delivering what the their populations want....
As for asking the question of happiness for northern countries you might find quite a discrepancy between winter and summer months.
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Trader#6216
May 14, 2025 1:41pm
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I am looking forward to having the media tell me what happens next.
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Trader#E1DF
May 14, 2025 2:33pm
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Cattle futures, cocoa futures (close to), and coffee futures at or close to all time highs. WMP futures ticking upwards. Elites, Powell and Trump lie. Or aren't looking at these charts.
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Trader#AFBA
May 14, 2025 3:54pm
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Bull crap......I do not see inflation lower. Everything I have to buy has went up.
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