Moderna: Longer Shelf Life For Its COVID-19 Vaccine Candidate At Refrigerated Temperatures | Metals Mine

  • Moderna: Longer Shelf Life For Its COVID-19 Vaccine Candidate At Refrigerated Temperatures

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ww3361
Nov 16, 2020 6:26am
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Quoting SirMcPip
{quote} {quote} yes, mRNA 1273..MSM tells you it doesnt but they are lying. And this is not my words. 2 of the most recognized Virologist in Germany, Dr. Wolfgang Wodarg(also former member of parliament) and Prof. Sucharit Bhakdi have proven that it does just that. Thats why governments dont want any open discussions. Go to www.wodarg.com. The other thing is, there is no long term studies with these vaccines available, and the large majority of doctors in Switzerland, Germany and Austria. warn people not to take these vaccines. The only vaccine...
There are some real loons these days on these forums.

My tertiary education was in this field. mRNA is downstream of DNA and it's cytoplasmic presence (where it interacts with tRNA at the Ribosomes and translates to amino acid chains) is transient.

It does not "alter your DNA".

Fundamental stuff. Google it.
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DaJoWaBa
Nov 16, 2020 8:32am
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Quoting SirMcPip
{quote} Ok, obviously i somehow made the impression that i am a pro in this biz. I dont know where i said that but who knows. So all this stuff what you are telling me dont mean diddly to me. I had no clue there are so many accomplished Professors here on FF. Lets assume i talked total bullshit about mRNA and that its really just a very harmless thing. You are complaining about the spread of misinformation, fine. I and the person asking about the DNA altering affects can probably complain a lot more about the lack of complete information. I am sure...
I am not suggesting that you DID declare yourself a pro. My concern is that a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing, as it conveys to some others you do know what you're talking about, that's all. You can learn all about Cell Biology for a huge array of places. It's the sort of curriculum detail that SHOULD be covered in fairly elementary Biology teaching, for matriculations in any nation for children in the teenage years.

So, to answer your question about where there is precedence of proof: there isn't any. By the same measure you're asking the same question that might have been asked before Man landed on the Moon, 'where's the proof that man can land on the moon without negative consequences?'. If you have done all the preliminary work and tested all the theory to death beforehand then the actual result would not be such a surprise. By your measure nothing new would ever get tried on the basis that you can't move forward if there are known unknowns or unknown unknowns.

The mRNA vaccines are productions of a selected section of the Covid-19 Virus cell wall. They reflect the 'key' that Covid-19 uses to put in the 'lock' of humans cell walls. So, they are not the whole key but just, say, the head part of the key that goes in the lock. Not being the whole dead virus or, as in other vaccines, the key attached to a benign virus, nothing happens if any of these mRNA-induced 'key-heads' get in a cell lock, other than jamming a lock. Every cell has thousands of locks, not just one (receptors). So, these foreign bits of protein are floating about aimlessly and some may by random luck find a lock but they are an alien protein, identified as not being a regular protein by your Immune-response system of white-blood cells (WBC). The WBC's attach to them and 'consume them' but also send out signals of the attack so that other WBC's are educated and WBC production boosted to get ready for more of the same attacks.

So, traditional vaccines have to do one of two things: either find the intruder key by trial and error then break it off a virus and attach it to a benign live virus or hope that injecting dead viruses can induce the same, right, targeted response. The new way is to take the biochemistry to a whole new level by sequencing the actual key and then manufacturing that portion of the Covid-19 wall/'key-head' that the specific Covid-19 RNA, and thus mRNA would produce without even having to attach it to another virus etc and injecting in a well-blooded active part of the body (muscles), which means WBC's get up close and personal with it quickly.

Both systems still need the 'key' protein injected. The old method of vaccine has the key and a whole lot more foreign material, like a virus, whereas the mRNA method just has the key alone. So, IF there was to be an unknown response, it would happen with the traditional vaccine method as well.

At the moment, the mRNA vaccines are producing results of something like 90% efficacy, meaning they are causing the human cells to react and attack (produce antibodies), rather than the traditional methods where much, much lower rates of success are seen (e.g. 50%). It shouldn't be a total surprise as a very focused target, rather than a scatter-gun effect, should be more efficient.

I hope this helps your understanding.
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ww3361
Nov 16, 2020 6:44am
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Quoting SirMcPip
{quote} You can visit www.wodarg.com. Maybe you can tell us where we can find long term studies with these mRNA vaccines. The Russians can go back to 1953.
You've now changed your argument.

My argument is that mRNA doesn't alter DNA.

Feel free to slag this vaccine off on any front you like. I genuinely don't care. Spreading misinformation is my number 1 pet peeve though.

mRNA doesn't alter DNA. Do not post here that it does unless you're armed with evidence.
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RossEdwards
Nov 16, 2020 11:30am
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Quoting modsky
{quote} well, maybe they are not reporting deaths correctly. The only way to know that the data given is true, is to compare year by year the rates of deaths from all similar causes...ie pneumonia, flu, etc. IF those rates are similar to prior years and so called covid related deaths are low, then maybe it is true. BUT if those rates are much higher and covid related deaths are los, then maybe they are not reporting correctly. From BMJ, just one of such sources of info that talks about reporting of data: https://www.bmj.com/content/370/bmj.m3543...
Yes a smart post. Measuring excess mortality is the simplest way to gauge the mortality impact of CV19 and the likelyhood that deaths were being mis-ascribed.
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DaJoWaBa
Nov 16, 2020 7:06am
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Quoting SirMcPip
{quote} {quote} yes, mRNA 1273..MSM tells you it doesnt but they are lying. And this is not my words. 2 of the most recognized Virologist in Germany, Dr. Wolfgang Wodarg(also former member of parliament) and Prof. Sucharit Bhakdi have proven that it does just that. Thats why governments dont want any open discussions. Go to www.wodarg.com. The other thing is, there is no long term studies with these vaccines available, and the large majority of doctors in Switzerland, Germany and Austria. warn people not to take these vaccines. The only vaccine...
People who don't have actual correct knowledge of the intimate details of Cell Microbiology and the differences between DNA, RNA, etc should stay out of pronouncing anything. That's how fake news gets going and can be so, so dangerous to people's lives. In simple terms, in animals mRNA is the DNA Output that instructs the cell parts on manufacture of all the relevant proteins, lipids etc etc. DNA is located in the Nucleus, not in the Cytoplasm, where you will find RNA. The DNA in effect produces mRNA that goes into the cell to manufacture stuff, not the other way around. The 'm' in mRNA actually stands for 'messenger'. A virus is just made of RNA and just uses the cell cytoplasm to clone itself in a copy-and-paste fashion, in huge numbers.

Vaccines traditionally have been based on trail-and-error location of a part of the coating of invader cells, whether bacteria, viruses, cancer cells etc. Where these new vaccines have an advantage is that with today's means to code DNA and RNA quickly, it's possible to produce the sections of RNA that are important without all the trial-and-error (a designer production). Therefore it has increased the likelihood of higher efficacy too. In addition, due to the heightened significance it has been possible to recruit the necessary relevant numbers of people with ease, rather than the companies having to spend ages cajoling people to partake. So, the fact that it's been done quickly is NOT because corners have been cut but because there was confidence it would be focused and right and then tested by the relevant number of people required in order to find the confidence level on the the effects.

An analogy is this: over centuries man has been plant-breeding for positive mutational advantages and incorporating them into the genome by trial and error. DNA-sequencing and the ability to determine quickly what the consequences are of any gene/DNA or RNA, there is the possibility of genetic-modification to select what is needed in quick time. The old way of developing vaccines is the old trial-and-error plant breeding. mRNA manufacture from the code sequencing is like the Genetic-modification methodology. Much more efficient. It's still the same stuff, just produced specifically rather than randomly.
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fxx360
Nov 16, 2020 6:40am
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Pfizer had 90% success rate, Russia Sputnik counteract with 92% now Moderna 94.5 . Have you seen the pattern of deception that the market is buying into. Next It will be 96+ success rate maybe from Sputnik . Drop your drawers if you believe
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ww3361
Nov 16, 2020 1:35pm
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Quoting SirMcPip
{quote} Would be nice if any of the pros here on FF can debunk this "Conspiracy Theory". Andrew Kauffman dont appear to me as he was your average nutjob?
Why don't you have a go bud?

The great thing about the internet is that you can find any evidence to back up your preconceptions.

For example if I was an idiot that didn't understand what evidence constitutes I could just post this:

https://www.mcgill.ca/oss/article/co...denies-reality

It suggests your new found guru might actually be a nutjob.

Just like in my earlier post...I'm afraid this will all come down to semantics. Categorically I can say with confidence that there is no Covid vaccine being developed that alters ones somatic or germinal genetic code. This is really all people should care about, as for me that would cross a boundary.

mRNA vaccines are just transient messages that don't hang around in the cell very long.

Plasmid bourne DNA vaccines have greater staying power, but still get lost in the progeny cells following division.

Again, I can understand if people are nervous about new tech. But let me assure you it really boils down to the unknown unknowns that come with any new class of therapies. These covid candidate vaccines do not alter one's DNA.

Am happy to read any peer reviewed or respected source of info on this. But if FF users are simply going to post tweets and youtube video's, please don't waste your own time.
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ww3361
Nov 17, 2020 4:30am
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Quoting Tranqility
“Still, Dr. Baltimore says that he envisions that some people might be leery of a vaccination strategy that means altering their own DNA, even if it prevents a potentially fatal disease.” David Baltimore is a Nobel Laureate (1975, in Physiology/Medicine), and the past president of the American Association for the Advancement of Science (1997-2006). He’s one of the most famous scientists in the world. Perhaps he needs to browse the comments at FF and get an education?
I'm gonna guess that it might be you that needs to get an education.

Firstly, did you read the articles you've referenced?

The NYT article is for an entirely different technology. Nothing do with with neither Moderna mRNA vaccine, nor any other Covid2 vaccine being developed.

You are talking about actual gene transfer. The actual transferring of a gene that encodes a pathogen specific antibody, NOT a D/RNA vaccine. Here's an article from Nature that might help you understand this:

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-018-07645-x

"The approaches differ in that DNA vaccines are designed to trigger the immune system to make its own antibodies, whereas antibody gene transfer aims to introduce antibodies without inciting such an immune response."

I would agree that the latter does alter ones DNA. The scientists themselves are very aware that the latter comes with the risk of not being able to turn off the transgene:

“There is the risk that you can’t shut it off,”

There is no therapy using this technology that has passed a phase 3 trial as far as I know. This technology is very different to the one being discussed on this thread.

Again, mRNA does not alter ones DNA. mRNA is transient and doesn't hang around in the body very long. Just long enough to cause some Covid2 spike protein to be made and presented to the immune system.

It's great that you didn't quote a youtube video nor twitter. But it might be worth first reading any article you do reference.
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barkie
Nov 16, 2020 6:19am
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Quoting SirMcPip
{quote} {quote}The only vaccine that is safe is the Russian Sputnik V.
Why don't you take the Russian Sputnik and let us know if it works or not (if you survive it).
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Yawgmouth
Nov 16, 2020 6:44am
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I had COVID. Whole family got it. Like a mild cold for us. We know of others at work with underlying issues that almost died. My kids had no symptoms. I'm not doing the Vaccine. It's not the vaccine that bothers me so much as the Government and the News Media. I don't trust either one.
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Coreg2004
Nov 16, 2020 10:05am
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Quoting ww3361
{quote} There are some real loons these days on these forums. My tertiary education was in this field. mRNA is downstream of DNA and it's cytoplasmic presence (where it interacts with tRNA at the Ribosomes and translates to amino acid chains) is transient. It does not "alter your DNA". Fundamental stuff. Google it.
https://twitter.com/o_rips/status/1327391038734888961
https://www.activistpost.com/2020/06...ng-humans.html
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harcos
Nov 16, 2020 3:27pm
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Quoting SirMcPip
{quote} Sorry but this is not a very convincing argument and when one is throwing in the buzzword "Conspiracy Theory" then it points to me more to the fact that someone wants to dodge an open discussion. So you say, 99% of the population should play guinea pig and jump into some dodgy adventure to benefit less than 1% of the population just as millions of people should sacrifice their financial existance for the good of society as you see it? And how much of the "science" that you are referring to is corrupted by major financial...
Sweden's death rate from Covid is just over 3.4% almost 4x that of the seasonal flu ,according to Johns Hopkins, here is the link https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/map.html Combine that with the recent spikes in cases over the last few weeks in Sweden and Sweden's chief epidemiologist admits its coronavirus immunity predictions were wrong, as cases spike. Herd mentality doesn`t work for in this situation.(I didn`t share a link as the interview was covered buy a bunch of news outlets easy googling). Just a few easily verifiable facts I thought you might be interested in knowing.
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SirMcPip
Nov 16, 2020 6:29am
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Quoting ww3361
{quote} There are some real loons these days on these forums. My tertiary education was in this field. mRNA is downstream of DNA and it's cytoplasmic presence (where is interacts with tRNA at the Ribosomes and translates to amino acid chains) is transient. It does not "alter your DNA". Fundamental stuff. Google it.
You are probably the biggest one of them all. Dont think that i will trust some self proclaimed expert punk on FF more than an accomplished pro in this field.
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modsky
Nov 16, 2020 10:21am
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Quoting SirMcPip
{quote} Vaccines have their rightful place. But what is going on here is a huge fraud. Ask yourself the question, why would anyone need a freaking vaccine for bullshit like Covid 19. In Sweden and Belarus, they didnt go along with the fraud. No social distancing, no lockdowns, no nothing. And guess what, no apocalypse there.

well, maybe they are not reporting deaths correctly. The only way to know that the data given is true, is to compare year by year the rates of deaths from all similar causes...ie pneumonia, flu, etc. IF those rates are similar to prior years and so called covid related deaths are low, then maybe it is true. BUT if those rates are much higher and covid related deaths are los, then maybe they are not reporting correctly.


From BMJ, just one of such sources of info that talks about reporting of data:

https://www.bmj.com/content/370/bmj.m3543


"Although the low death numbers are encouraging, some experts fear that many coronavirus related deaths are registered as cases of pneumonia—UN data show a difference of 5605 between April-June 2019 compared with the same period in 2020.11 And the deaths per capita ratio remains one of the highest in Europe. Nilson is cautious, “Until we have the figures for excess deaths, I don’t want to praise Belarus too much.”

so do not praise too many countries until all those rates are available. Personally I think we will never know the real truth of numbers. AND our opinions for the most part are just spewing out those things we want to believe and not one person here will change the opinion of any other.

i do not believe that most people here professing to be 'experts' to tell the truth of their trading expertise so why would i ever believe them about something that they are not an active expert in...Covid transmission/control/vaccines/etc. THAT is my opinion.
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fxx360
Nov 16, 2020 6:18am
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It’s Monday morning again and another miracle vaccine findings to push stocks higher. Is Moderna CEO selling his stocks like Pfizer CEO did last Monday on the news release. Ffs people get with the time of fake news!!!
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ww3361
Nov 16, 2020 6:37am
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Quoting BeLikeWater
{quote} Well your RNA I not sure, I mean this company is all about that, I know previous vaccines worked differently thats why I asked. Well I have been told this by my uncle thats is the chief of laboratory of a very big hospital.
Yes this is new tech. No it doesn't alter one's DNA. But you're not the first person to imply it does.

The tech, as a therapy is new. The science is old. DNA is transcribed to mRNA, which is translated into protein.

mRNA doesn't hang around very long (something like half a day). It interacts with the protein building machinery of the cell.

This is old stuff. Here in the UK, I think it's maybe A level Biology. Might even be GCSE.
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ww3361
Nov 16, 2020 7:33am
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Quoting SirMcPip
{quote} Ok, obviously i somehow made the impression that i am a pro in this biz. I dont know where i said that but who knows. So all this stuff what you are telling me dont mean diddly to me. I had no clue there are so many accomplished Professors here on FF. Lets assume i talked total bullshit about mRNA and that its really just a very harmless thing. You are complaining about the spread of misinformation, fine. I and the person asking about the DNA altering affects can probably complain a lot more about the lack of complete information. I am sure...
Ok, I've now read the impfen page. It looks like your understanding of it's points were wrong.


What it's touching on his how "genetic modification" should be defined legally. The article states that because mRNA (called recombinant RNA as it's synthetic) alters "genetic processes", it should indeed be called "genetic modification" because "genetic modification is not limited to a direct change in the DNA".

I think the article is a little over the top and a tad misleading. Headings like "Planned "vaccinations" change us genetically" is misleading when it then goes on to define a genetic change in the case of mRNA vaccines as any alteration to processes downstream of DNA transcription (not just DNA alterations). I don't like that definition. But.... I respect the good intentions as to why the author does this.


To summarize it is 100% stating that recombinant RNA does not directly change DNA. However it believes that alterations to downstream cell processes (not DNA itself) should still be captured by the term "genetic modification". So it's arguing "genetic modification" not "DNA modification". From the point of view of the legals it wants patients to be protected from this new technology I guess.


This may just look like semantics, but understanding that this article is not stating "mRNA alters DNA" is very important.
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ww3361
Nov 16, 2020 7:44am
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Quoting SirMcPip
{quote} Ok, my friend. I really appreciate clearing this up, very interesting. Judging by how you write, i can tell you really know something about the biz. Thanks again!
No worries. I don't think there's anything wrong with being suspicious re new vaccines. There's a lot at stake. And pharma has gotten it wrong many times before.

Astra Zeneca's rushed Swine flu vaccine ended up having a nasty side effect, for example.

Personally, unless I were a high risk person, I wouldn't be rushing to have this vaccine at least for another year.
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ww3361
Nov 16, 2020 8:54am
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Quoting DaJoWaBa
{quote} I am not suggesting that you DID declare yourself a pro. My concern is that a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing, as it conveys to some others you do know what you're talking about, that's all. You can learn all about Cell Biology for a huge array of places. It's the sort of curriculum detail that SHOULD be covered in fairly elementary Biology teaching, for matriculations in any nation for children in the teenage years. So, to answer your question about where there is precedence of proof: there isn't any. By the same measure you're...
I agree that the science is sexy. But it's very dangerous to then assume outcomes will correlate so.

Black Swans typically manifest from the most sure of things going wrong because the level of certainty behind them was grossly overestimated in the first place. Ie putting a man on the moon is very unlikely to pose an existential threat if it goes wrong! There is much more at stake with the entire human race potentially being exposed to a new technology in one go.

Like you, I like the science and suspect this will be the technology of the future for many immune related pathologies (vaccines, autoimmune and cancer). But, as has happened over and over in the last 12 years, politics and money may lead to excessive risk taking yet again.

The immune system is very complicated. Present an antigen to it in the wrong way in the wrong person and you could trigger hypersensitivity short term or autoimmunity long term. Yes, clinical trials are aimed to uncover these adverse events, but unfortunately it is a near certainty that you can't capture all of them.

I personally find it terrifying the amount of political and financial interest in a vaccine having to work combined with the risks at steak should it carry a side effect(s) not yet seen or fully understood. It's the sort of thing Taleb would love to write about!
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ww3361
Nov 16, 2020 2:44pm
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Quoting Coreg2004
Hidden
I'm definitely guilty of overstaying my welcome. I'm not a doctor. Just someone that reads and finds it distressing that FF doesn't do anything to ban users spreading crap around.

You replying to a post with nothing more than a tweet from a right wing blogger and misguided psychiatrist, is definitely the most moronic thing I've seen so far.

Well done.
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ww3361
Nov 16, 2020 6:59pm
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Quoting SirMcPip
{quote} Since you are such an intelligent guy. Can you break this down for us why the MHRA needs that stuff? https://ted.europa.eu/udl?uri=TED:NO...:EN:HTML&src=0
You really are a loon. MHRA adverse event monitoring is normal. Drug companies are duty bound to report all adverse events, post drug release. Even medical sales reps are legally obliged to report adverse events in turn reported by their customers immediately.

If you were a patient in the UK and you told a healthcare professional that a paracetomol gave you a nose bleed, that AE will (should anyway) get logged with MHRA. No joke.

The link states clearly that they require a larger capacity for monitoring. Makes sense to me considering what's going on.

You really need to calm down and take time out to read things.
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ww3361
Nov 17, 2020 12:03pm
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Quoting SirMcPip
Hidden
Haha. Nice. I’d be angry too if I were you. All the time.
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ForeverNewb
Nov 16, 2020 5:59am
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funny... about same time than last week, same pattern, same result though this time I was in
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ForeverNewb
Nov 16, 2020 6:40am
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so, crystal ball stuff, next week should be about the time to get the results of their safety study, isn't it? so we can expect another "miraculous" news same time next week, but now as all the pundits will be aware and enter long equities early, we can expect a quick and large drop just after the initial spike to clean everyone up... I mean, 3 news, very similar to 3 pushes, whadaya think? )
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ongtl
Nov 16, 2020 6:10am
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whatever it is.. here is my analyses

1. Stock market up. (Good news for economy)
2. Metal down. (people will withdraw from metal and invest back into economy for better yield)

Yes the same news happened last week. So I expect this information caused the trend only last for 1 days.
Dont get caught up
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harcos
Nov 17, 2020 7:09am
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Quoting SirMcPip
{quote} Your question is exactly the reason why they get away with this bullshit. Here is what happens when people dont ask alot of questions and act. https://summit.news/2020/11/16/forced-vaccination-law-in-denmark-abandoned-after-public-protests/ If you can show me a link on mainstram media then let me know, its on twitter but its blocked. Dont know what the reason is.
So that`s a no?
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harcos
Nov 17, 2020 7:14am
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Quoting SirMcPip
{quote} I am indeed interested in facts. But i am very cautious of facts cpming from a corrupt institution that receives large scale "donations" from benevolent "foundations" to market whatever their "clients" pay for. Fact is, it is very difficult to accurately count death rates and compare them with other countries as each country uses different methods and has different standards. Probably good for the official narrative, as they can cook their numbers as they wish and still can say that they aint lying. Sweden has...
If you think the high death rate in Sweden is due to suicide that's just silly. If you think Johns Hopkins has an ulterior motive for reporting cases then show some proof. By the way they match all the other sites reporting on Covid within a reasonable amount so is every one of them are lying? I think you are being overly paranoid.
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RossEdwards
Nov 17, 2020 1:57am
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mRNA vaccines are some of the many vaccines being developed to combat the Covid-19 virus.
However, they do not alter a person’s DNA.
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sailingon
Nov 16, 2020 12:28pm
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Quoting BaliBoyz80
we should happy we hv 'Hope" for Vaccine. the important is we can hv our normal life back, this the most important.
Unfortunately vaccine will give short lived immunity. We still have H1N1 (spanish flu 1916) killing people winter 2019-2020. HIV 1983, common cold. All these viruses we can not get rid of. Normal is gone. This is new normal. sorry
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baole
Nov 16, 2020 6:10am
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What a lame excuse to dump gold!
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LloydOz
Nov 16, 2020 6:42am
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Quoting barkie
{quote} Why don't you take the Russian Sputnik and let us know if it works or not (if you survive it).
NASA just launched 4 astronauts to the International Space Station on SpaceX. This is no coincidence.
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hesron
Nov 16, 2020 9:17am
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do not be confused, in sideways market conditions, news is used to manipulate prices
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SirMcPip
Nov 16, 2020 6:13am
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Quoting BeLikeWater
Is this the vaccina that alters your DNA?
Quoting BeLikeWater
Is this the vaccina that alters your DNA?
yes, mRNA 1273..MSM tells you it doesnt but they are lying. And this is not my words. 2 of the most recognized Virologist in Germany, Dr. Wolfgang Wodarg(also former member of parliament) and Prof. Sucharit Bhakdi have proven that it does just that. Thats why governments dont want any open discussions. Go to www.wodarg.com. The other thing is, there is no long term studies with these vaccines available, and the large majority of doctors in Switzerland, Germany and Austria. warn people not to take these vaccines. The only vaccine that is safe is the Russian Sputnik V. They have long term experience with their technology...since 1953. It is not an mRNA vaccine. So there are options available in case you care to get a jab.
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SirMcPip
Nov 16, 2020 6:40am
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Quoting ww3361
{quote} Tell you what. Post the quotes from your "accomplished pro" that you think corroborate your argument here on FF. I'll be more than happy to debate each and every one. Genuine offer. I have all the time in the world to discuss this.
You can visit www.wodarg.com. Maybe you can tell us where we can find long term studies with these mRNA vaccines. The Russians can go back to 1953.
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SirMcPip
Nov 16, 2020 6:53am
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Quoting ww3361
{quote} You've now changed your argument. My argument is that mRNA doesn't alter DNA. Feel free to slag this vaccine off on any front you like. I genuinely don't care. Spreading misinformation is my number 1 pet peeve though. mRNA doesn't alter DNA. Do not post here that it does unless you're armed with evidence.
Maybe you cant read. Go visit the website. I never said i am a pro in this biz. I need to get my info from those who are pros. So tell us what your name is and what your accomplishments are, then i can check if you have any credibility or if you are the one spreading misinformation.
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SirMcPip
Nov 16, 2020 7:09am
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Quoting ww3361
{quote} Let's keep this to the point shall we. The statement: "mRNA alters DNA".... TRUE or FALSE? NB I'd be very grateful if you could help me find where on your website (https://www.wodarg.com/) does it state that mRNA alters DNA. Thanks.
NB? Medical Education? On the website click Impfen, that means vaccination. The rest can be handled with google translate or something better. The website is in german. But you still hadnt told us where we can find long term studies with mRNA that can prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that there is absolutely no chance of medium and long term damages in greater numbers.
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SirMcPip
Nov 16, 2020 7:23am
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Quoting DaJoWaBa
{quote} People who don't have actual correct knowledge of the intimate details of Cell Microbiology and the differences between DNA, RNA, etc should stay out of pronouncing anything. That's how fake news gets going and can be so, so dangerous to people's lives. In simple terms, in animals mRNA is the DNA Output that instructs the cell parts on manufacture of all the relevant proteins, lipids etc etc. DNA is located in the Nucleus, not in the Cytoplasm, where you will find RNA. The DNA in effect produces mRNA that goes into the cell to manufacture...
Ok, obviously i somehow made the impression that i am a pro in this biz. I dont know where i said that but who knows. So all this stuff what you are telling me dont mean diddly to me. I had no clue there are so many accomplished Professors here on FF. Lets assume i talked total bullshit about mRNA and that its really just a very harmless thing. You are complaining about the spread of misinformation, fine. I and the person asking about the DNA altering affects can probably complain a lot more about the lack of complete information. I am sure you can tell us where we, as non pros can find reliable studies about this mRNA technology done on human beings, showing without a shadow of a doubt that there are no medium and long term negative side effects in large numbers? Before you want to vaccinate people by the billions, you should be able to proof that. And if you can, then the CEOs of these companies who produce these jabs should take the first jab and take full responsibility and not negotiate shady deals with corrupt governments that exempts them from liability. Then you should have an open discussions with both sides of the aisle and have a real argument why anyone should take this vaccine in the first place when the mortality rate is that low. Or are we talking about some Ebola strain?
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SirMcPip
Nov 16, 2020 7:38am
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Quoting ww3361
{quote} Ok, I've now read the impfen page. It looks like your understanding of it's points were wrong. What it's touching on his how "genetic modification" should be defined legally. The article states that because mRNA (called recombinant RNA as it's synthetic) alters "genetic processes", it should indeed be called "genetic modification" because "genetic modification is not limited to a direct change in the DNA". To summarize it is 100% stating that recombinant RNA does not directly change DNA. However it...
Ok, my friend. I really appreciate clearing this up, very interesting. Judging by how you write, i can tell you really know something about the biz. Thanks again!
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SirMcPip
Nov 16, 2020 7:57am
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Quoting ww3361
{quote} No worries. I don't think there's anything wrong with being suspicious re new vaccines. There's a lot at stake. And pharma has gotten it wrong many times before. Astra Zeneca's rushed Swine flu vaccine ended up having a nasty side effect, for example. Personally, unless I were a high risk person, I wouldn't be rushing to have this vaccine at least for another year.
This what you are saying is pretty much what Mr. Wodarg is saying as well. I am aware that there are many extreme views on both sides and you really got to take your time to filter out relevant info if you are an amateur like i am. I really believe vaccines have their rightful place as they saved many people from lots of misery in the past. But this Covid 19 hype is on a completely different level in my view and has absolutely nothing to do with what vaccines are intended to be there for. Just my personal view, cannot arrive at any other conclusion after observing this charade for months now. Again, thanks for taking the time.
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SirMcPip
Nov 16, 2020 9:14am
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Quoting ww3361
{quote} I agree that the science is sexy. But it's very dangerous to then assume outcomes will correlate so. Black Swans typically manifest from the most sure of things going wrong because the level of certainty behind them was grossly overestimated in the first place. Ie putting a man on the moon is very unlikely to pose an existential threat if it goes wrong! There is much more at stake with the entire human race potentially being exposed to a new technology in one go. Like you, I like the science and suspect this will be the technology of the...
Also a big thanks to you for your detailed explanation, much appreciated. About your argument with the proof, I honestly have a bit of a different opinion. We had a handful of men on the moon and these people done that because it was their passion. They knew the potential risks and they knew what the risks were, not knowing if it effects their health 30 years down the line. Noone was trying to sell them anything or coerce them to do something. But with this Covid thing, its a different ballgame as it could potentially seriously affect peoples health in huge numbers, who knows, no proof available. Now if this were really a killer virus that had a 99% mortality rate, then it would be a lot easier to weigh the risks and the potential consequences, then 92 effectiveness sounds darn good. But this is where the deception is. This deliberately created panic is coercing many people to potentially do something for which there is absolutely no need in the first place(at least for 99% of the population). And why is there no open discussion about the potential dangers of this technology that noone ever used before, why does Big Pharma dont take full liability for their allegedly “safe” products? This is not about health, as we are being served on TV with former Big Tech Executives posing as “experts” advising us on how to handle “pandemics”. If you follow the money trail, you will understand why. Why is there no apocalypse in Sweden or Belarus, two countries that decided to do basically nothing? Cause Covid 19 is less dangerous than the flu. And the mortality numbers show it comparing it with some flu seasons in the recent past. Just my personal opinion.
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SirMcPip
Nov 16, 2020 11:57am
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Quoting DaJoWaBa
{quote} The rational for a vaccination program is all about engendering herd immunity, not what effect it has directly on each and every individual. Even healthy, young individuals with no underlying medical issues will benefit society by being vaccinated so that they don't go around spreading it to vulnerables as they try to resume a normal life. Follow the science and it's usually 'on the nose', rather than the dogged determination to find a cause for a conspiracy theory. Some people will make anything fit.
Sorry but this is not a very convincing argument and when one is throwing in the buzzword "Conspiracy Theory" then it points to me more to the fact that someone wants to dodge an open discussion. So you say, 99% of the population should play guinea pig and jump into some dodgy adventure to benefit less than 1% of the population just as millions of people should sacrifice their financial existance for the good of society as you see it? And how much of the "science" that you are referring to is corrupted by major financial interests? When you talk about scientists, then i want to hear from all of them with equal access to MSM not just the ones that pay you. And your herd immunity has been pretty much achieved in Sweden, without a vaccine. You still have not proven that this virus is more dangerous than the seasonal flu.
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SirMcPip
Nov 16, 2020 12:29pm
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Quoting Coreg2004
{quote} https://twitter.com/o_rips/status/1327391038734888961 https://www.activistpost.com/2020/06...ng-humans.html
Would be nice if any of the pros here on FF can debunk this "Conspiracy Theory". Andrew Kauffman dont appear to me as he was your average nutjob?
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SirMcPip
Nov 16, 2020 5:28pm
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Quoting harcos
{quote} Sweden's death rate from Covid is just over 3.4% almost 4x that of the seasonal flu ,according to Johns Hopkins, here is the link https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/map.html Combine that with the recent spikes in cases over the last few weeks in Sweden and Sweden's chief epidemiologist admits its coronavirus immunity predictions were wrong, as cases spike. Herd mentality doesn`t work for in this situation.(I didn`t share a link as the interview was covered buy a bunch of news outlets easy googling). Just a few easily verifiable facts I thought...
I am indeed interested in facts. But i am very cautious of facts cpming from a corrupt institution that receives large scale "donations" from benevolent "foundations" to market whatever their "clients" pay for. Fact is, it is very difficult to accurately count death rates and compare them with other countries as each country uses different methods and has different standards. Probably good for the official narrative, as they can cook their numbers as they wish and still can say that they aint lying. Sweden has a higher death rate because they do not require a death certificate stating COVID-19 is the cause of death. So you could walk out of a testing center with a positive result, be depressed, get drunk on 2 quarts of whiskey, break down and die and be counted as as someone who died from Covid 19. In other countries that is now also being done of course to create more panic and to hype up the whole fraud further. At least Sweden does it without the bullshit like lockdowns, masks and social distancing.
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SirMcPip
Nov 16, 2020 5:34pm
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Quoting harcos
{quote} What if its required for travel and stuff, would you take it if you wanted to fly somewhere on vacation and it was a requirement before you boarded an aircraft to show proof of vaccination. Hypothetically of course.
Your question is exactly the reason why they get away with this bullshit. Here is what happens when people dont ask alot of questions and act.
https://summit.news/2020/11/16/forced-vaccination-law-in-denmark-abandoned-after-public-protests/

If you can show me a link on mainstram media then let me know, its on twitter but its blocked. Dont know what the reason is.
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SirMcPip
Nov 16, 2020 5:46pm
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Quoting ww3361
{quote} Why don't you have a go bud? The great thing about the internet is that you can find any evidence to back up your preconceptions. For example if I was an idiot that didn't understand what evidence constitutes I could just post this: https://www.mcgill.ca/oss/article/co...denies-reality It suggests your new found guru might actually be a nutjob. Just like in my earlier post...I'm afraid this will all come down to semantics. Categorically I can say with confidence that there is no Covid...
Ok buddy, you think you are smart but you just dance around the technicalities of your DNA thing. You say trust me, i know better and everyone else is stupid and then you show me some website and want me to believe their "facts". Its not so easy. So get your brain out of your ass and understand first what the whole discussion iis all about
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SirMcPip
Nov 16, 2020 5:57pm
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Quoting ww3361
{quote} great example of an FF loon
Since you are such an intelligent guy. Can you break this down for us why the MHRA needs that stuff?
https://ted.europa.eu/udl?uri=TED:NOTICE:506291-2020:TEXT:EN:HTML&src=0
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SirMcPip
Nov 16, 2020 6:01pm
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Quoting ww3361
{quote} My link was to a Canadian university website. Your link was from Coreg2004. A frankly offensive post that he/she apologised for. Replace "DNA thing" with GCSE biology and you might start to make headway. Stop being so naive...please. You're starting to sound a little silly.
I think that you somehow dont get it. Thats ok, i rest my case, its hopeless.
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bundyraider
Nov 16, 2020 6:02am
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Quoting ww3361
{quote} Please correct me if I'm wrong..... but there is no vaccine that "alters your DNA". Crikey.
...Yeah delusional anti-vaxxer rubbish.
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bundyraider
Nov 16, 2020 6:38am
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Quoting ww3361
{quote} There are some real loons these days on these forums. My tertiary education was in this field. mRNA is downstream of DNA and it's cytoplasmic presence (where it interacts with tRNA at the Ribosomes and translates to amino acid chains) is transient. It does not "alter your DNA". Fundamental stuff. Google it.
I got you , WW. Science isn't science these days, it seems. 'The Guardian' is like the bible to so many people. lol
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DaJoWaBa
Nov 16, 2020 11:46am
Permalink
Quoting SirMcPip
{quote} Also a big thanks to you for your detailed explanation, much appreciated. About your argument with the proof, I honestly have a bit of a different opinion. We had a handful of men on the moon and these people done that because it was their passion. They knew the potential risks and they knew what the risks were, not knowing if it effects their health 30 years down the line. Noone was trying to sell them anything or coerce them to do something. But with this Covid thing, its a different ballgame as it could potentially seriously affect peoples...
The rational for a vaccination program is all about engendering herd immunity, not what effect it has directly on each and every individual. Even healthy, young individuals with no underlying medical issues will benefit society by being vaccinated so that they don't go around spreading it to vulnerables as they try to resume a normal life. Follow the science and it's usually 'on the nose', rather than the dogged determination to find a cause for a conspiracy theory. Some people will make anything fit.
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Tranqility
Nov 16, 2020 8:45pm
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This is a type of vaccine that has never been tested outside of a tightly controlled lab setting. Anyone using it will be taking part in an extremely unsafe experiment with zero liability for the drug companies. The "pandemic" is a mild flu with a 99.99% survival rate, the majority of people who have it need a test to alert them to this "deadly disease". The proposed vaccine does rewrite your DNA. Here is a quote from someone who knows what he is talking about and the sources.

“The viruses invade human cells with their DNA payloads, and the synthetic gene is incorporated into the recipient’s own DNA. If all goes well, the new genes instruct the cells to begin manufacturing powerful antibodies.”

“Still, Dr. Baltimore says that he envisions that some people might be leery of a vaccination strategy that means altering their own DNA, even if it prevents a potentially fatal disease.”

David Baltimore is a Nobel Laureate (1975, in Physiology/Medicine), and the past president of the American Association for the Advancement of Science (1997-2006). He’s one of the most famous scientists in the world.

reuters.com/article/uk-factcheck-covid-19-vaccine-modify/false-claim-a-covid-19-vaccine-will-genetically-modify-humans-idUSKBN22U2BZ

nytimes.com/2015/03/10/health/protection-without-a-vaccine.html.

By rewriting your DNA to produce foreign proteins you run the risk of runaway autoimmune disorders that will lead who-knows-where. I for one will gladly forgo this 'wonder of modern medicine'.
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Tranqility
Nov 17, 2020 2:58am
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“Still, Dr. Baltimore says that he envisions that some people might be leery of a vaccination strategy that means altering their own DNA, even if it prevents a potentially fatal disease.”

David Baltimore is a Nobel Laureate (1975, in Physiology/Medicine), and the past president of the American Association for the Advancement of Science (1997-2006). He’s one of the most famous scientists in the world.

Perhaps he needs to browse the comments at FF and get an education?
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ww3361
Nov 16, 2020 6:32am
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Quoting SirMcPip
{quote} You are probably the biggest one of them all. Dont think that i will trust some self proclaimed expert punk on FF more than an accomplished pro in this field.
Tell you what. Post the quotes from your "accomplished pro" that you think corroborate your argument here on FF. I'll be more than happy to debate each and every one.

Genuine offer. I have all the time in the world to discuss this.
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ww3361
Nov 16, 2020 6:54am
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Quoting SirMcPip
{quote} Maybe you cant read. Go visit the website. I never said i am a pro in this biz. I need to get my info from those who are pros. So tell us what your name is and what your accomplishments are, then i can check if you have any credibility or if you are the one spreading misinformation.
Let's keep this to the point shall we.

The statement: "mRNA alters DNA"....

TRUE or FALSE?

NB I'd be very grateful if you could help me find where on your website (https://www.wodarg.com/) does it state that mRNA alters DNA. Thanks.
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ww3361
Nov 16, 2020 7:13am — Edited
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Quoting SirMcPip
{quote} But you still hadnt told us where we can find long term studies with mRNA that can prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that there is absolutely no chance of medium and long term damages in greater numbers.
I also didn't tell you what you had for breakfast! I never started a conversation with you about anything other than your claim that mRNA alters DNA. Stop changing the subject.
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ww3361
Nov 16, 2020 1:39pm
Permalink
Quoting Coreg2004
{quote} https://twitter.com/o_rips/status/1327391038734888961 https://www.activistpost.com/2020/06...ng-humans.html
great example of an FF loon
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ww3361
Nov 16, 2020 5:54pm
Permalink
Quoting SirMcPip
{quote} Ok buddy, you think you are smart but you just dance around the technicalities of your DNA thing. You say trust me, i know better and everyone else is stupid and then you show me some website and want me to believe their "facts". Its not so easy. So get your brain out of your ass and understand first what the whole discussion iis all about
My link was to a Canadian university website. Your link was from Coreg2004. A frankly offensive post that he/she apologised for.

Replace "DNA thing" with GCSE biology and you might start to make headway. Stop being so naive...please. You're starting to sound a little silly.
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NotAtrader
Nov 16, 2020 6:20am
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Quoting BeLikeWater
Is this the vaccina that alters your DNA?
Yes that’s exactly the one, but it doesn’t affect because your DNA is already altered.
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Bakker
Nov 16, 2020 8:56am
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Forget the vaccine, trade the market, look how far the $ has fallen against the Yen. Against the Chf it just sits there and wait.
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harcos
Nov 16, 2020 3:13pm
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Quoting SirMcPip
{quote} Why should i take one for Covid if i dont take one for the flu?
What if its required for travel and stuff, would you take it if you wanted to fly somewhere on vacation and it was a requirement before you boarded an aircraft to show proof of vaccination. Hypothetically of course.
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Artcool
Nov 16, 2020 1:31pm
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Is this why Pfizer CEO and his deputy sold most of their Pfizer stocks the same day they announced their results about the 92% efficacy rate?
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IndigoPingvi
Nov 16, 2020 6:06am
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Sounds to good to be true.
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SirMcPip
Nov 16, 2020 6:25am
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Quoting barkie
{quote} Why don't you take the Russian Sputnik and let us know if it works or not (if you survive it).
Why should i take one for Covid if i dont take one for the flu?
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SirMcPip
Nov 16, 2020 6:48am
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Quoting fxx360
Pfizer had 90% success rate, Russia Sputnik counteract with 92% now Moderna 94.5 . Have you seen the pattern of deception that the market is buying into. Next It will be 96+ success rate maybe from Sputnik . Drop your drawers if you believe
Vaccines have their rightful place. But what is going on here is a huge fraud. Ask yourself the question, why would anyone need a freaking vaccine for bullshit like Covid 19. In Sweden and Belarus, they didnt go along with the fraud. No social distancing, no lockdowns, no nothing. And guess what, no apocalypse there.
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afevir
Nov 16, 2020 7:43am
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now according to my calculations it would have to fall very long until before the news of pfizer
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bundyraider
Nov 16, 2020 6:00am
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...yeah. These F---rs are playing the markets
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bundyraider
Nov 16, 2020 6:00am
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...and yeah me too. In this time. lol
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fxx360
Nov 16, 2020 7:27am
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Ok guys enough story telling. Just drop your pants for a Sputnik and everything will be fine
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fxx360
Nov 16, 2020 9:12am
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seems like the market got a Spotnik vaccine in its arse and gave up all the Moderna news rally .... lol fake news!
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dustbin
Nov 16, 2020 7:31am
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Quoting BeLikeWater
Is this the vaccina that alters your DNA?
that would nice... I could become a mutant ninja turtle
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vasal
Nov 17, 2020 1:06am — Edited
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I hope this is good for all of us
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Ksth
Nov 16, 2020 6:07am
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Sell USD.. Haha
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ww3361
Nov 16, 2020 6:01am
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Quoting BeLikeWater
Is this the vaccina that alters your DNA?
Please correct me if I'm wrong..... but there is no vaccine that "alters your DNA". Crikey.
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ww3361
Nov 16, 2020 7:07pm
Permalink
Quoting SirMcPip
{quote} I think that you somehow dont get it. Thats ok, i rest my case, its hopeless.
Agreed.
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BaliBoyz80
Nov 16, 2020 5:56am
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Good news ?
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BaliBoyz80
Nov 16, 2020 6:03am
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we hv vaccine
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BaliBoyz80
Nov 16, 2020 6:10am
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from 90% rise to 94,5%...good
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BaliBoyz80
Nov 16, 2020 6:23am
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we should happy we hv 'Hope" for Vaccine. the important is we can hv our normal life back, this the most important.
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BaliBoyz80
Nov 16, 2020 6:41am
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dont just some ppl hv "buy" potition in gold or "Sell" Usd, talk bad think about Vaccine, just objective.
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BaliBoyz80
Nov 16, 2020 11:30am
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we hv vaccine, some ppl say it fake, if too many die bcs covid, protest to gov and asking vaccine. im really confused
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kanitha
Nov 16, 2020 6:07am
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what the hell are you saying???? This news make alot of market movement!!! It is so funny!!! Just 94%, OH MYG GOD!!! I Couldn't believe the market very high volatility. It is Just 94%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%.
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BeLikeWater
Nov 16, 2020 6:31am
Permalink
Quoting ww3361
{quote} Please correct me if I'm wrong..... but there is no vaccine that "alters your DNA". Crikey.
Well your RNA I not sure, I mean this company is all about that, I know previous vaccines worked differently thats why I asked. Well I have been told this by my uncle thats is the chief of laboratory of a very big hospital.
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BeLikeWater
Nov 16, 2020 6:32am
Permalink
Quoting SirMcPip
{quote} {quote} yes, mRNA 1273..MSM tells you it doesnt but they are lying. And this is not my words. 2 of the most recognized Virologist in Germany, Dr. Wolfgang Wodarg(also former member of parliament) and Prof. Sucharit Bhakdi have proven that it does just that. Thats why governments dont want any open discussions. Go to www.wodarg.com. The other thing is, there is no long term studies with these vaccines available, and the large majority of doctors in Switzerland, Germany and Austria. warn people not to take these vaccines. The only vaccine...
Ok thank you, I will take a look.
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BeLikeWater
Nov 16, 2020 6:36am
Permalink
Quoting NotAtrader
{quote} Yes that’s exactly the one, but it doesn’t affect because your DNA is already altered.
What do you mean? I will take a look, my uncle told me about that vaccine, but I didnt understand the mechanism really, he just told it was a new technique for develping the new vaccines. So I dont know what companies are using new technologies or the old ones.
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LloydOz
Nov 16, 2020 7:21am
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Quoting Yawgmouth
I had COVID. It's not the vaccine that bothers me so much as the Government and the News Media. I don't trust either one.
You don't trust the government or the media? You may have a knock on the door anytime soon.
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TrTT
Mar 25, 2021 7:09am
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HAHAHAHAahhahahahaha Very Nice Stuff Both of You Mc Pip and World War 3

I am Not Going to get a vaccine/jab whatever you call it Because I believe this virus spread technique is caused by Israel to get people traced

Know thier weaknesses and act accordingly to conquer. Specifically efforts across the Deser t Nearby But Believe me the Desert got Jabs from China and Sputnik

HAHAHahahahahahhahaa so Thats In Your Ugly Face. We Are Still Waiting In The Deser t For You No Matter What You Do We Will Slay You HAHA Currently Your Supply of Wives Satisfies Us Right Baby Here You Go HAHA

FF Comeon Now You Know This Was Coming RIGHT OK
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Onyishi
Nov 16, 2020 6:15am
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Got all my trailing stop triggered
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CashRel
Nov 16, 2020 7:23am
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Wuhan Voodoo Virus will be ineffective
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Yankee24
Nov 16, 2020 6:00am
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Usd Up
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BeLikeWater
Nov 16, 2020 5:57am
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Is this the vaccina that alters your DNA?
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alroundwealt
Nov 16, 2020 6:02am
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USD up?
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shayanizi
Nov 16, 2020 6:04am
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what happen?
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ongtl
Nov 16, 2020 6:11am
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Btw I did my entry before the news announce. Sell Silver, TP 23.500.
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Menco
Nov 16, 2020 6:11am
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usd down, index up
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ongtl
Nov 16, 2020 6:26am
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Quoting Onyishi
Got all my trailing stop triggered
At least u are secured
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hidhrhis
Nov 16, 2020 6:32am
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There will be a whole iota of volatility at NY open
im outta trade till tomorrow
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sun9
Nov 16, 2020 6:40am
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yes,
Very well, it will cover the world faster and better
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NaeemSamorai
Nov 16, 2020 6:54am
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so why usd is bearish guys?
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LloydOz
Nov 16, 2020 7:32am
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Maybe its radioactive.
Reply
Trader#F85E
Nov 16, 2020 9:12am
Permalink
Quoting ww3361
{quote} I agree that the science is sexy. But it's very dangerous to then assume outcomes will correlate so. Black Swans typically manifest from the most sure of things going wrong because the level of certainty behind them was grossly overestimated in the first place. Ie putting a man on the moon is very unlikely to pose an existential threat if it goes wrong! There is much more at stake with the entire human race potentially being exposed to a new technology in one go. Like you, I like the science and suspect this will be the technology of the...
Yes, I agree. I wasn't intending to suggest that a mission to the moon was a only ever likely to be a slamdunk, just a suitable analogy for where the current status of reward/risk scenario is for the new method of vaccine production.
Reply
Trader#3AE2
Nov 16, 2020 9:16am
Permalink
Quoting SirMcPip
The only vaccine that is safe is the Russian Sputnik V. They have long term experience with their technology...since 1953.
Actually the Sputnik 5 is based on Russian Ebola vaccine, which also didn't have phase 3 trials before being approved. And it's not exactly "Russian", testing and probably development was done in a RusAl clinic in Liberia. Oleg Deripaska was the owner, US sanctions against him forcing him out of full control might have something to do with it.
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timplatz
Nov 16, 2020 10:18am
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Likewise, my trailing stop was also triggered ;-)
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Trader#3AE2
Nov 16, 2020 6:05am
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Quoting BeLikeWater
Is this the vaccina that alters your DNA?
No, but it makes your body cells produse virus proteins.
Reply
Trader#F824
Nov 16, 2020 6:10am
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They was trading this a good 5 mins before this news came out lol
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Trader#A50D
Nov 16, 2020 7:24am
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Hmmm guys, If you don't mind. Pardon my lack of knowledge but why would a shelf life of a vaccine trigger the bears in Eur/Usd?
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